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Fighters do not drop their bombs! (Read 1188 times)
Oct 1st, 2005 at 9:46pm

vilik   Offline
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Hello.  I am having difficulty getting enemy fighters droping their load at airbase runway.  Any feed back
Thanks,
Vilik
 
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Reply #1 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 10:11pm

Corsair Freak   Offline
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Hi Vilik,

are the enemy fighters completely stock, or have you made any changes to your stock aircraft?


Good Hunting,
Brandon
 
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Reply #2 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 11:32am

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Have they got an attack waypoint? Check the mission in the mission builder.
 

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Reply #3 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 10:24am

jimski   Offline
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By my experience most add on airplanes won't do their jobs unless you fly them yourself. They won't attack targets, won't fly formation and some simply fall out of the sky. I've used some where a formation will do great as long as you shoot the lead plane down immediately or maybe it will crash on its own before the rest of the flight crashes - after the lead is gone the rest of the flight will soldier on as it should.

In general I have a very simple mission I built to test the add ons as soon as I get them running well in free flight. It is just a few factories in plain sight with several formations missioned to bomb them starting maybe five miles away with my plane just behind them. Then I watch what happens. If a new fighter is to be tested I make one of the formations that fighter set up to attack a bomber formation and watch what happens. Then I get to see if the new plane can fly formation, will attack, and if the bombers will try to defend themselves and if the bombers will continue to fly towards the bombing mission.

I'm not sure at all how sim aircraft are given their smarts but some got it and some don't. Aside from making minor changes maybe in trim abilities and flying speeds I've never been able to change the AI behaviour and would like to hear how it is done. There are some really wonderful models out there that fly perfectly by hand but not at all by artificial intelligence.

Jimski
 
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Reply #4 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 10:28am

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Quote:
I've used some where a formation will do great as long as you shoot the lead plane down immediately or maybe it will crash on its own before the rest of the flight crashes - after the lead is gone the rest of the flight will soldier on as it should.


That's probably the deal with the VB Lancaster and Thicko's Stirling. I don't know how to fix this up Undecided
 

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Reply #5 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 7:22pm

jimski   Offline
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I just flew my test mission with the four British night bombers that I have downloaded. Results were that the wonderful Whitley by Buddha13 will not fly as an AI at all. The Sterling by Thicko will not attack its target but will follow you in a formation. The Lancaster by Assembly Line and the Halifax by sgreen work perfectly and bomb with total accuracy.

I have never been able to find a Wellington which I think would complete the set.

How does one post a screenshot on this forum?

Jimski
 
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Reply #6 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 10:00pm

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Reply #7 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 1:27am

Bombardier101   Offline
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Quote:
just flew my test mission with the four British night bombers that I have downloaded. Results were that the wonderful Whitley by Buddha13 will not fly as an AI at all. The Stirling by Thicko will not attack its target but will follow you in a formation. The Lancaster by Assembly Line and the Halifax by sgreen work perfectly and bomb with total accuracy. 

I have never been able to find a Wellington which I think would complete the set.


A WHITLEY? OMG, please could you give me the adress for it, I need a Whitley?! Maybe I could do a new airfile for it so that it's not too complex and will fly as an AI. I've never noticed problems with the Stirling except the 'leader drops to ground if spawned' effect, and where do you get that Halifax? I don't know if it will work better than Stiz's Halifax beta, but could I please try it out? As for the Lanc, I found the VB Lanc before it and I'm not ditching the VB Lanc unless that 1% one is waaaayyyy better. If you could please give me the adresses of all those planes you mentioned apart from the Stirling that would be much appreciated and maybe I could help you with the Whitley's dumba$$ AI problems.

As for a Wellie, I'm downloading a Peenemunde night raid bomber escort pack that says it has a Wellington inside so I'll see if it's a good one or not. If the flight model is one of the stingy CFS1 types I'll say "stuff this" and leave the Wellington's role in the Nachtjaeger! campaign (PM me for details Grin) to be taken over by the Whitley.

Anyway, sorry to hear of the plane problems and happy flying.



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Reply #8 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 5:13am

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If I remember correctly the 1% Lancaster is merely the VB Lancaster with a 1% airfile.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #9 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 6:01am

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Thanks Woody. I'll check out the AvHistory site (or wherever to get CFS2 1% stuff Roll Eyes) to see if I can find the airfile.
 

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Reply #10 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 6:17am

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The CFS2 1% stuff is now at Netwings.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #11 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 6:52am

Bombardier101   Offline
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I thought so. Well I'll get it soon and see really how good it is! 8) Wink





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Reply #12 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 6:56am

Bombardier101   Offline
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And uh, hi Vilik!



Have you tried making 3 waypoints for an aircraft in Mission Builder--the first is Turn, the second is Attack w/ bombs and the third is away from the target and is called Land anywhere.


Unless you've tried that it's either the aircraft's airfile is too complex so it won't drop it's bombs or follow attack waypoints or I don't have a clue what the problem is.

Happy flying,




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Reply #13 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 5:09pm

jimski   Offline
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Bombardier,

I'm going to have to guess for now where I got the models.

I'm sure the Halifax was from Netwings.org and thought the Lancaster was also although I just did a quick look there and did not see it.

I think the Sterling was from combatfs.com.

The Whitley is I think a converstion of a fs2004 model. Pretty sure I got that one from flightsim.com. The conversion is presented at combatfs.com but I think you need the fs2004 model first. This Whitley is grand to look at and  fly but will not fly as an AI aircraft. I flew it in fs2002 before converting it. It has many unique features including a fabulous two needle adf. I think Whitley's were obsolete by the time the bomber stream came into use so perhaps the ability to work as a flight is not a big factor. Not too long ago I bought a cheap dvd of the WW2 British film "One Of Our Aircraft Is Missing" and it showed well the details of a Wellington bombing mission and there was no formation flying at all. Each bomber made its own way. By 1943 they had techniques they say to steam maybe 500 heavies over a city in an hour to overwhelm the defenses.

JImski
 
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Reply #14 - Oct 6th, 2005 at 10:11pm

vilik   Offline
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Thanks for your input everyone.  I will try different planes.   
Actualy this is what I am doing;

1-Pick an air base.
2-Pick an oposition plane.
3-Draw a 3 or 4 waypoint flight rout.
4-Select the runway to be bombed and mark Attack W/bombs.
5-Fly away (turn)

They come and just fly by.

Once I try stock planes I will let you know.
Thanks again,
Vilik
 
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Reply #15 - Oct 7th, 2005 at 3:47am

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Reply #16 - Oct 8th, 2005 at 3:58am

Bombardier101   Offline
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You might want to send a PM to Hagar about this. I don't know if he's an expert at solving mission problems but it's worth a try Wink

Thanks Jimski! I'll look around. Stiz's Halifax is out and I've got it and I've already got the Stirling so it rules those two out.
 

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Reply #17 - Oct 8th, 2005 at 4:04am

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Quote:


Thanks Stiz! That Whitley looks cool in the screenie! Time to download........ Smiley

Happy flying,



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Reply #18 - Oct 8th, 2005 at 4:52am

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That basic Whitley is a Ted Cook fs2004 design that I got at flightsim.com. While I was checking on it the other day I saw he also had a Manchester in fs2004. Another great job. I downloaded it and tried to fly it in fs2002 and it all worked except the engines were forever in idle. That has happened before to me and I guess it is an fs2004 effect.

Jimski
 
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Reply #19 - Oct 8th, 2005 at 5:56am

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Yes, he has a Manchester too! Jimski, maybe you could fix the problem in FS2002 by getting the Manchester conversion stuff by Buddha13. I'm pretty sure that he has done some Wink





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Reply #20 - Oct 8th, 2005 at 11:32pm

jimski   Offline
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Bombardier

Thanks for the Manchester tip. I downloaded the conversion and after a while got it to fly. It flies fine but has two problems I don't know how to fix. One is that it is a frame eater. And second is that in cfs2 it is not fully painted, the tops of the wings and about half of the fuselage and wheels, etc, are grey. (It is fully painted way in fs2002.)
As for its AI performance, it bombs its targets and follows me nicely in formation but when flying in formation without me to lead the second plane usually collides with the leader.

Jimski
 
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Reply #21 - Oct 10th, 2005 at 10:45am

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Hey Jimski


You're welcome Smiley I've just done a new airfile for that Whitley and it's basicly Thicko's Stirling airfile except a little bit modded. I have to ask him for permission to upload it. Sorry I can't help you with the Manchester but I can find a Wellington for you in a while...




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Reply #22 - Oct 10th, 2005 at 1:23pm

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Bombardier,

I need a review of the uses of the basic files in an aircraft's folder.

The aircraft.cfg file is a text file where I can modify the flight characteristics. Yes? I know how to use that one.

The ".air" file is a nontext file that I don't know how to change. Not sure what it does but I know I can make an airplane fly with the air file from a different aircraft as long as I rename it. Not exactly sure what info is stored in the .air file but I know a plane won't fly without it.

The .dp file I assume has info of how the ac is affected by damage, plus info about the weapons loadout. Since it is a text file it can be changed and I have used it to tinker with weapons carried. Is that it?

I also see a .cdp file that I don't know how to work with and don't recall what is in there. Not all ac have a .cdp file. Yes?

I assume that the basic AI behaviour is deep inside the model somewhere and I have never found a way to tinker with it. Yes?

JImski
 
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Reply #23 - Oct 11th, 2005 at 12:00am

H   Offline
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Jimski;
Your aircraft.cfg basically tells the program which files to utilize.
I've been working with CFS1 but I believe there is an .air editor in the utilities for CFS2; your specific flight dynamics (Ctr of Gravity; fuel tank, engine, surface area info, etc.) are in this file. Although I once succeeded in changing typed info, I got lucky so, as you indicate, don't use a standard text editor to mess with this file.
You're correct about the .dp file: as well as the damage [profile] boxes, the armament types, amounts and convergences are in the gunstation info. There is an editor available but I've never used one -- it can be done safely with notepad/wordpad (at least in CFS1).
 
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Reply #24 - Oct 11th, 2005 at 1:17pm

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I downloaded the air file editor and looked at an old cfs file with it. I think nearly all of the items you can edit with it can in csf2 also be edited with the text "flight tuning" sections of the .cfg file, at least that is how I have been doing it. I saw no AI information there but about half of the data is listed as "unknown". I figured the AI smarts had to be in the .air file.

I took my Whitley bomber model, made for fs2004 by ted cook and redone for csf2 by buddha, which would not fly AI at all, it would simply fall out of the sky. I substituted the .air file from the new stiz Manchester, just putting it in the Whitley folder and renaming the .air file, and it flew great, including all AI functions! It thought it was a Manchester of course and I could hear four engines start instead of two, and it went too fast. Then I tried the .air file from the great GC-He111 which is a closer match to the Whitley and has a perfect AI function. The mod works great! So now my Whitley is fully AI functional although I still have to tune it to get it to perform to the specs in my history book ,but it is already very close. I feel I have the AI problem figured out now. I can't edit AI function but I can choose a .air file that has AI function that I want and then tinker with the flight tuning through the .cfg file or with the air file editor to make it fly per the book.

This gets back to the original topic of the AI plane not bombing its target. Many AI planes, especially add on fighters, were never taught by their .air files to do that. One thing that you need to do in mission builder for a bombing mission is to set the mission as a "strike" and many interceptors will need modified .air files to do that.

Is all this correct?

Jimski

 
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Reply #25 - Oct 12th, 2005 at 1:38am

H   Offline
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Seems so except, possibly, in the bombing aspect; in CFS1 the plane is also directed as to its attack role (air, ground, vehicle...) in the specific mission file (except that the fighters, although they will make a bomb attack, don't do so properly). I've never altered multi-engine .air files but it seems one should be able to either change the number of engines in it or, at least, how many are heard via the sound file (depending upon specific setup for that plane or the files used for it).
« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2005 at 11:43pm by H »  
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Reply #26 - Oct 12th, 2005 at 4:06am

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Hi guys


Jimski I hate to be one of those people who couldn't give a <bleep> about historical accuracy but if you do that I'm pretty sure it will be problematic again Embarrassed

Vilik, make sure the aircraft loadout includes one with bombs. In some DPs the bombs don't work Sad

Happy flying,




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Reply #27 - Oct 13th, 2005 at 1:39pm

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Bombardier,

Not sure what you mean about "historical accuracy" but if you mean an .air file that gives you a feel for the real thing, I'm quite certain that many add on aircraft don't have that to start with. In fact, there are probably very few people alive today who know for example what a Wellington flew like. So when I transfer the airfile of say the Stiz Halifax to the Stirling and it still flies like a heavy bomber, I say that is as "historically accurate" as a PC simulator is going to get. The fact that now the AI Stirling will fly as a real heavy did on bombing runs and under attack, where it did not before, is the plus I am after. Details such as max speed and cruise speed, and flying characteristics in general can be corrected with the "flight tuning" sections in the .cfg file. (By the way, the air file editor program presented in the utilites section does not seem to work in csf2 as its author warns.)

As for problems, I've changed about six misbehaving AI aircraft so far with none. So far it has all been for the good.

Give it a try if you have a model that looks good but won't fly AI correctly. Just rename the original .air file so you can bring it back later if needed.

Jimski
 
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Reply #28 - Oct 13th, 2005 at 11:52pm

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Quote:
(By the way, the air file editor program presented in the utilites section does not seem to work in csf2 as its author warns.)
Are you speaking of this version: http://www.simviation.com/files/2cfs/aired.zip ? If so, it should be removed from the CFS2 utilities page.; if you're not, try it Wink.
 
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Reply #29 - Oct 14th, 2005 at 12:35am

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Yes, that was the file I tried. Is there another?

Jimski
 
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Reply #30 - Oct 14th, 2005 at 3:04am

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Quote:
Yes, that was the file I tried. Is there another?
There was an earlier version in CFS1 at one time. There may be others elsewhere.
 
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Reply #31 - Oct 14th, 2005 at 3:20am

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Hi everyone,



I found the Pegasus Aviation Wellington but it's visual model is troppo; too big! I made a way better DP for it but it doesn't fit the visual model although I made it to fit on DPEd. It's air file is troppo as well Undecided So I'll look around AvHistory and I'll Google It until I find another Wellington Smiley







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Reply #32 - Oct 14th, 2005 at 1:22pm

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Bombardier,

In the instructions that came with Buddha's Manchester he says to use the .air file from the Alpha Wellington. I did a google search of "alpha wellington" and found more references to it. But when I went to alphasim.co.uk I did not see it. It might be worth a deeper search.

Jimski
 
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Reply #33 - Oct 14th, 2005 at 1:31pm

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Jimski,

all the Alpha Freeware a/c were uploaded to Sim-Outhouse as "AlphaOldies"

EDIT - Checked at SOH... it wasn't there...

Good Hunting,
Brandon
 
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Reply #34 - Oct 18th, 2005 at 4:18am

Bombardier101   Offline
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Dang Undecided
 

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Reply #35 - Oct 18th, 2005 at 10:58am

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Vilik have you tried this new gudget developed by Pen32win and his group on the Sim-outhouse down load section. Its call af_ifn_dps. Its located here:

1.http://www.sim-outhouse.com/index.php?loc=downloads&page=downloads&FileType=af-m...

Also check out Coyoties tutorial on how to to use the Mission Builder. Its located here:

2.http://www.simviation.com/cfs2misc2.htm

Check it out. Tell me if it helped you.

James007
 
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