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CFS3 ai (Read 1752 times)
Sep 18th, 2005 at 2:25am

kalashnikov01   Offline
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Even on Ace- the enemy fighters are bad- if i actually try i can never be shot by them, they take ages to line up their attacks and when they do just a little change in ur course and they break away or cant get any shots on you.

On teh other hand- the enemy bomber gunners are rediculously accurate- i put it on ace to compensate for the enemy fighters but then the bombers gunners are shooting like they have some kind of auto aim!

is their some kind of dispersion mod because the hand held guns ie- JU88 etc- the bullets basically travel down a hose pipe their is no dispersion at all....

but also they are too acurate in acutally aiming the things....

Ive looked in the CS directory to find any files on ai but i didnt. A mod owuld be awesome!

Has anyone made the ai better ??? Any payware mods or anything?

would be more than happy to help with ai improvements etc...

any information regarding this subject is greatly appreciated.

 
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Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2005 at 5:17am

bzhyoyo   Offline
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I've been shot enough times to know the ennemy fighters can shoot, but I find that the more numerous they are, the better they are (for example 1 vs 1 is less difficult against AI than 8 vs 8 ).

It already has been done : you must modify a value (don't remember which one) in a XDP file to make the weapon used by the bomber gunners less accurate.

I know MAW will have different version of the same plane for AI and player controlled bomber to take this into account.
 
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Reply #2 - Sep 18th, 2005 at 4:26pm

kalashnikov01   Offline
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ok thanks.

That is good, but the fighter ai- it really needs attention.

In fact there ar not many games where the fighter ai is very good come to think about it- both the cfs1 and cfs2 both had appauling ai- il2 sturmovik had dissapointing ai- a good one i can think of though is the Rowans BAttle of Britain- even though i m not too keen on the game itself- an appauling damage 'model' and flight model etc- its ai i noticed was  VERY good- the first flight sim i played where i had to fight the ai off my tail but he always came back.

I just seem to really like the cfs3 engine- graphics- spawning ground units, upgradability etc and the 1% avhistory planes- well they are THE REASON  to get this game- wow, without them i would of given up with the crappy original planes a LONG time ago. Thanks a lot to those guys- really. Hope to see tons more awesome planes from them.

.... the only thing i can see that really needs adressing is the ai-

it would be good if a group of us could delve into bringing up the ai dogfighting...

Anyone has the same opinion- please post- i would like some suggestion
 
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Reply #3 - Sep 25th, 2005 at 5:51am

IndioBlack   Offline
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They don't seem to have too much trouble lining up on the heavy bombers, though.
 
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Reply #4 - Sep 25th, 2005 at 11:23am

AvHistory   Offline
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Air Combat AI is being addressed in the 1% Version 4 aircraft for MAW.  A number of V4's will be released before MAW in unique AvHistory livery.

The AI in all the CFS series aircraft was optimized by the developers for angles fighting first, there was never any real effort to add BnZ detail to any of the CFS series because of time constraints caused by release date commitments.

Additionally different methods are bring looked at to better reflect both hand held & turret guns effectiveness which is over done in the series to say the least.
 
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Reply #5 - Sep 25th, 2005 at 5:48pm

61_OTU   Offline
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Quote:
The AI in all the CFS series aircraft was optimized by the developers for angles fighting first, there was never any real effort to add BnZ detail to any of the CFS series


BnZ = Boom and Zoom?

What do you mean Bear? That AI fighters will always try to get into a turning contest rather than just get in, fire, and get out?

And can we  really expect some V4 aircraft in advance of MAW?  Shocked

You're a good man Bear Wink

61(happy to be a beta-tester)OTU

Smiley
 
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Reply #6 - Sep 25th, 2005 at 7:26pm

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
BnZ = Boom and Zoom?

What do you mean Bear? That AI fighters will always try to get into a turning contest rather than just get in, fire, and get out?


Yes the MS software in all 3 versions is optimized for Turn & burn style fights.  Some additional AI work was done with CFS3 so its improved over 1&2 but its still really a T&B AI.

Quote:
And can we  really expect some V4 aircraft in advance of MAW?  Shocked


Yes we will be releasing some Version 4 planes prior to MAW including Molly's G version.  None of the MAW Easter eggs or MAW specials will be released but you can expect bread & butter planes like P-38, P-51 some Spits along with various 109 & 190 marks.

Most likely all 4 jets (2 Allied 2 German) we have done will also be released.

...

They would be out already but we found a hiccup in the flight package that was very hard to nail down.
 
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Reply #7 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 5:35am

61_OTU   Offline
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Quote:
Most likely all 4 jets (2 Allied 2 German) we have done will also be released.


I resized the pic Bear, it was over in res and KB, wouldn't want it removed, it's a beauty!

It's a sharp pic too, have you got a new gfx card?

Steve
 
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Reply #8 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 11:15am

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
I resized the pic Bear, it was over in res and KB, wouldn't want it removed, it's a beauty!


Sorry about that.....What is the max size?

Quote:
It's a sharp pic too, have you got a new gfx card?
Steve


No I am still running an old Nividia FX-5600/128mb. The game is running at 1600X1200X32.

Thing I liked about the picture was the way the camo on the upper wing blends into the terrain.  WildBat did most of the jet skins for us.
 
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Reply #9 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 12:16pm

61_OTU   Offline
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Max res is 800x600, mak kb per pic is 100k and max pictures per thread is 500kb.

This one looks sharper and less jaggy than some of your previous pics, maybe you altered some settings.

Steve
 
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Reply #10 - Sep 26th, 2005 at 3:44pm

AvHistory   Offline
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FSAA is running "application controlled" instead of off.
 
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Reply #11 - Sep 27th, 2005 at 7:44am

IndioBlack   Offline
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So if you're running "Apllication controlled" in your Nvidia control panel, what are you setting in CFS3 cfg?
None or x4?

That Gotha does look smooth.
 
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Reply #12 - Sep 27th, 2005 at 9:33am

bzhyoyo   Offline
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FSAA (I've just learned that the proper word should be Anisotropic filtering) can't be controlled from cfs3, it must be done in the driver panel.
It's AA (anti-aliasing) that can be set in cfs3config.
 
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Reply #13 - Sep 27th, 2005 at 11:36am

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
FSAA (I've just learned that the proper word should be Anisotropic filtering) can't be controlled from cfs3, it must be done in the driver panel.
It's AA (anti-aliasing) that can be set in cfs3config.


I could be mistaken, its actually happened once or twice in my life,  Cry but I thought FSAA = Full-Scene Anti-Aliasing & that AF = Anisotropic Filtering which is used to address a specific kind of texture artifact that occurs when a 3D surface is sloped relative to the view camera.  AF is an improvement over bilinear and trilinear filtering it introduces less blur in the process and thus preserves more detail.

Quote:
So if you're running "Apllication controlled" in your Nvidia control panel, what are you setting in CFS3 cfg?
None or x4?

That Gotha does look smooth.


Regardless, 2X is the ingame (CFSCONFIG) setting.

The card driver - Nvidia 4/2/2003 Version 43:51 is set to application control.  

Additional driver settings: Intellisample = Quality, Anisotropic Filtering = 4X

EDIT BTW: a lot of guys ingame config setting never 'take' because they use the upper right X to quit the config instead of quitting with the file drop down menu EXIT.

This is a known bug in CFSCFG as it its displaying "NONE" after a specific setting has been installed
« Last Edit: Sep 27th, 2005 at 1:12pm by AvHistory »  
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Reply #14 - Sep 27th, 2005 at 6:47pm

IndioBlack   Offline
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I have to agree with Bear - it's happened once or twice in my life.  Wink

My understanding was that when he used the term FSAA, he was referring to anti-aliasing, which is why I asked the question regarding how he set up anti-aliasing in CFS3.
Since we all know that there is no setting for Anisotropic filtering in CFS3, I didn't ask him about that.

I now have FSAA set at "application-controlled" in the 6800GT Nvidia Panel, but set at x4 in the CFS3.cfg. Naturally, when I go back and look at the CFS3.cfg it still says "none", but we know that's a bug - as Bear says.  So I guess I'm agreeing again. 

What that means is that if he's wrong, I'm completely screwed 8)
 
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Reply #15 - Nov 18th, 2005 at 9:10am

rkk01   Offline
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Interested to see the comments on the AI preference for a turn n burn fight, and the tweaks put into cfs3 for this purpose....

....Has this been overdone???, orr do the ai use "real" or the same flight physics as the flyable aircraft.

Every bomber in the MS box can out turn any fighter I fly, seemingly without loosing energy.  Meanwhile my own aircraft / pilot will stall or blackout......now I know my flying is not "by the numbers", but it seems very odd when the ai doesn't seem to suffer the same limitations on tight turns.

Agree with the gunner ai - ridiculous, not just accuracy, but also heavy damage way before I am close enough to consider taking a good shot.

 
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Reply #16 - Nov 18th, 2005 at 10:52am

Mathias   Offline
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It's said the AI use the same flight dydnamics as the player aircraft minus fuel and ammo weight & they always fly the perfect pattern.
 

Mathias&&...
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Reply #17 - Nov 27th, 2005 at 9:08am

IndioBlack   Offline
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Quote:
Agree with the gunner ai - ridiculous, not just accuracy, but also heavy damage way before I am close enough to consider taking a good shot.



It really depends from which side of the battle you're viewing things. As a Bomber pilot, I think the AI German Fighters are ridiculously good, and our AI gunners are terrible.  I once had a flight of five Lancasters shot to pieces behind me, and only got home by diving for the deck and flying 50 ft altitude all the way home. I got a bollocking when I got back too.
However, the AI gunners in the Firepower B-29 seem to be much more skilful, or maybe we just have more and bigger guns.
 
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Reply #18 - Nov 27th, 2005 at 10:59am

4_Series_Scania   Offline
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Quote:
Sorry about that.....What is the max size?


No I am still running an old Nividia FX-5600/128mb. The game is running at 1600X1200X32.

Thing I liked about the picture was the way the camo on the upper wing blends into the terrain.  WildBat did most of the jet skins for us.



Bloody hell AV!, I could'nt get CFS3 to behave at any setting with my old 128MB FX5600, I've only really enjoyed the sim since getting a GeForce 6 series, whatever your doing mate, it looks great!  8)


FWIW, I find the CFS3 AI bloody good, either that , or, I'm crap.....  Embarrassed Wink
 

Posting drivel here since Jan 31st, 2002. - That long!
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Reply #19 - Nov 27th, 2005 at 11:57am

AvHistory   Offline
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Actually the AI in CFS3 is quite good overall  & the bomber gunners can be Davie Crockett good if you don't tone them down.

Getting good (realistic) bomber gunners has been proven to be a very fine balancing act because of the underlying software but it can be done.

In reality the hand held guns were about as effective as throwing beer cans at the fighters, occasionally they might run into one. Cheesy  

Statistically for the B-17,  the ball turret was the most effective gun position. I have no idea why.

Despite what you see in the movies & documentaries its important to remember most gun positions had less the 2 minutes trigger down time (that's about 2-1/2-3 TONS of guns & ammo weight in a B-17G) so the bursts had to be quite short & tracking shots were not really made.

 
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Reply #20 - Dec 2nd, 2005 at 4:13am

rkk01   Offline
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Quote:
.... the bomber gunners can be Davie Crockett good if you don't tone them down.

Getting good (realistic) bomber gunners has been proven to be a very fine balancing act because of the underlying software but it can be done....


Does the forum have any exisitng posts / links on how to do this??

Cheers

PS - Re GFX cards - my CFS 3 runs pretty well on a 128mb GF4 Ti4600 card.................although a 256mb 6600 GT is on order
 
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Reply #21 - Dec 2nd, 2005 at 12:23pm

rkk01   Offline
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OK I've just tried a few experiments in quick combat mode...

Set the enemy fighter as a single B17F, then choose a decent single seat fighter - I tried the 1% Bf106-G6 and Just Flight Spitfire Vc.

In both cases the B17 would out turn me, both in a horizontal and vertical fight!!!!!

The ai must be flying a skin, not a flight model with the same physics engine as the palyer aircraft!!
 
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Reply #22 - Dec 2nd, 2005 at 1:16pm

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>>>Set the enemy fighter as a single B17F, then choose a decent single seat fighter - I tried the 1% Bf106-G6........The ai must be flying a skin, not a flight model with the same physics engine as the palyer aircraft!! <<<

This is an invalid test unless both planes flight models are from the same source and built to the same specs.

Just did your test & can run all over the 1% B-17G (we dont do a B-17F yet and can't speak to its flight dynamics) with the 1% Bf-109G6.  

Can beat him quite easily in a one or two circle fight, climbing spiral, decending spiral,  6 o'clock overtake or 12 o'clock merge with an Immelman reversal.  

I does not seem to matter how the engagement is started neutral, advantaged or disadvantage as in less then one B-17 turn the 109 is inside the B-17's circle and has a gun solution.  

It will also out climb & out dive the 1% B-17G

Can load the FRAPS movies if you need proof  Wink
 
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Reply #23 - Dec 2nd, 2005 at 3:48pm

Mathias   Offline
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Apart from that, you may want to choose "bomber intercept" as your mission type and not force the poor b-17 to perform fighter tactics by choosing "dogfight" in quick combat.
 

Mathias&&...
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Reply #24 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 6:58am

rkk01   Offline
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Quote:
Apart from that, you may want to choose "bomber intercept" as your mission type and not force the poor b-17 to perform fighter tactics by choosing "dogfight" in quick combat.


Dogfight was chosen deliberatley - to see how cfs3 asked each flight model to perform. Cheesy

Cheers for the advice....I suspect I need to revisit my main cfs 3 settings page.
 
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Reply #25 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 9:31am

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Dogfight was chosen deliberatley - to see how cfs3 asked each flight model to perform. Cheesy


Point is it does not demonstrate anything other then the individual design of the planes flight models.  Any number of B-17's by different designers will all fly differently unless they have the same flight package.  

This was not a test of a player plane flight model; against an AI plane flight model the way you conducted it.  

The only way to do that is to fly the Bf-109G6 against itself; not even another Bf-109G6 by a different developer.

What you have asked CFS3 to perform is the flight model of the specific plane you tested no more no less.

If B-17 "A: has a flight model that will let it turn at 90DPS it will do so.  If B-17 "B" has a flight model designed to turn at 22DPS it will do so.

If you test both B-17 A & B against a 109 "A" will easily out turn the 109 and the 109 will easily out turn "B", this has nothing to do with it being an AI or not.
 
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