Simviation Forum

Reply #15 - Nov 18^th, 2005 at 9:10am

rkk01 Offline
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Interested to see the comments on the AI preference for a turn n burn fight, and the tweaks put into cfs3 for this purpose....

....Has this been overdone???, orr do the ai use "real" or the same flight physics as the flyable aircraft.

Every bomber in the MS box can out turn any fighter I fly, seemingly without loosing energy. Meanwhile my own aircraft / pilot will stall or blackout......now I know my flying is not "by the numbers", but it seems very odd when the ai doesn't seem to suffer the same limitations on tight turns.

Agree with the gunner ai - ridiculous, not just accuracy, but also heavy damage way before I am close enough to consider taking a good shot.

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Reply #16 - Nov 18^th, 2005 at 10:52am

Mathias Offline
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It's said the AI use the same flight dydnamics as the player aircraft minus fuel and ammo weight & they always fly the perfect pattern.

Mathias&&

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Reply #17 - Nov 27^th, 2005 at 9:08am

IndioBlack Offline
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Quote:

Agree with the gunner ai - ridiculous, not just accuracy, but also heavy damage way before I am close enough to consider taking a good shot.

It really depends from which side of the battle you're viewing things. As a Bomber pilot, I think the AI German Fighters are ridiculously good, and our AI gunners are terrible. I once had a flight of five Lancasters shot to pieces behind me, and only got home by diving for the deck and flying 50 ft altitude all the way home. I got a bollocking when I got back too.
However, the AI gunners in the Firepower B-29 seem to be much more skilful, or maybe we just have more and bigger guns.

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Reply #18 - Nov 27^th, 2005 at 10:59am

4_Series_Scania Offline
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Quote:

Sorry about that.....What is the max size?

No I am still running an old Nividia FX-5600/128mb. The game is running at 1600X1200X32.

Thing I liked about the picture was the way the camo on the upper wing blends into the terrain. WildBat did most of the jet skins for us.

Bloody hell AV!, I could'nt get CFS3 to behave at any setting with my old 128MB FX5600, I've only really enjoyed the sim since getting a GeForce 6 series, whatever your doing mate, it looks great! 8)

FWIW, I find the CFS3 AI bloody good, either that , or, I'm crap..... Embarrassed

Posting drivel here since Jan 31st, 2002. - That long!

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Reply #19 - Nov 27^th, 2005 at 11:57am

AvHistory Offline
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Actually the AI in CFS3 is quite good overall & the bomber gunners can be Davie Crockett good if you don't tone them down.

Getting good (realistic) bomber gunners has been proven to be a very fine balancing act because of the underlying software but it can be done.

In reality the hand held guns were about as effective as throwing beer cans at the fighters, occasionally they might run into one. Cheesy

Statistically for the B-17, the ball turret was the most effective gun position. I have no idea why.

Despite what you see in the movies & documentaries its important to remember most gun positions had less the 2 minutes trigger down time (that's about 2-1/2-3 TONS of guns & ammo weight in a B-17G) so the bursts had to be quite short & tracking shots were not really made.

BEAR&&http://www.avhistory.org&&http://www.medairwar.com

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Reply #20 - Dec 2^nd, 2005 at 4:13am

rkk01 Offline
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 8

Quote:

.... the bomber gunners can be Davie Crockett good if you don't tone them down.

Getting good (realistic) bomber gunners has been proven to be a very fine balancing act because of the underlying software but it can be done....

Does the forum have any exisitng posts / links on how to do this??

Cheers

PS - Re GFX cards - my CFS 3 runs pretty well on a 128mb GF4 Ti4600 card.................although a 256mb 6600 GT is on order

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Reply #21 - Dec 2^nd, 2005 at 12:23pm

rkk01 Offline
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 8

OK I've just tried a few experiments in quick combat mode...

Set the enemy fighter as a single B17F, then choose a decent single seat fighter - I tried the 1% Bf106-G6 and Just Flight Spitfire Vc.

In both cases the B17 would out turn me, both in a horizontal and vertical fight!!!!!

The ai must be flying a skin, not a flight model with the same physics engine as the palyer aircraft!!

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Reply #22 - Dec 2^nd, 2005 at 1:16pm

AvHistory Offline
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>>>Set the enemy fighter as a single B17F, then choose a decent single seat fighter - I tried the 1% Bf106-G6........The ai must be flying a skin, not a flight model with the same physics engine as the palyer aircraft!! <<<

This is an invalid test unless both planes flight models are from the same source and built to the same specs.

Just did your test & can run all over the 1% B-17G (we dont do a B-17F yet and can't speak to its flight dynamics) with the 1% Bf-109G6.

Can beat him quite easily in a one or two circle fight, climbing spiral, decending spiral, 6 o'clock overtake or 12 o'clock merge with an Immelman reversal.

I does not seem to matter how the engagement is started neutral, advantaged or disadvantage as in less then one B-17 turn the 109 is inside the B-17's circle and has a gun solution.

It will also out climb & out dive the 1% B-17G

Can load the FRAPS movies if you need proof Wink

BEAR&&http://www.avhistory.org&&http://www.medairwar.com

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Reply #23 - Dec 2^nd, 2005 at 3:48pm

Mathias Offline
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Apart from that, you may want to choose "bomber intercept" as your mission type and not force the poor b-17 to perform fighter tactics by choosing "dogfight" in quick combat.

Mathias&&

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Reply #24 - Dec 5^th, 2005 at 6:58am

rkk01 Offline
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 8

Quote:

Apart from that, you may want to choose "bomber intercept" as your mission type and not force the poor b-17 to perform fighter tactics by choosing "dogfight" in quick combat.

Dogfight was chosen deliberatley - to see how cfs3 asked each flight model to perform. Cheesy

Cheers for the advice....I suspect I need to revisit my main cfs 3 settings page.

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Reply #25 - Dec 5^th, 2005 at 9:31am

AvHistory Offline
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Dogfight was chosen deliberatley - to see how cfs3 asked each flight model to perform. Cheesy

Point is it does not demonstrate anything other then the individual design of the planes flight models. Any number of B-17's by different designers will all fly differently unless they have the same flight package.

This was not a test of a player plane flight model; against an AI plane flight model the way you conducted it.

The only way to do that is to fly the Bf-109G6 against itself; not even another Bf-109G6 by a different developer.

What you have asked CFS3 to perform is the flight model of the specific plane you tested no more no less.

If B-17 "A: has a flight model that will let it turn at 90DPS it will do so. If B-17 "B" has a flight model designed to turn at 22DPS it will do so.

If you test both B-17 A & B against a 109 "A" will easily out turn the 109 and the 109 will easily out turn "B", this has nothing to do with it being an AI or not.

BEAR&&http://www.avhistory.org&&http://www.medairwar.com

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