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Long live CFS1, 2 and 3! (Read 513 times)
Reply #45 - Sep 11th, 2005 at 6:25pm

Hagar   Offline
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Not to worry, this thread is just a light duty time killer.  Wink

Apparently. As an outsider all I can see is some of the best freeware developers in the business trading insults like 12 year-olds.* All over nothing. It might keep you amused but doesn't exactly give visitors to this forum the best impression of our hobby. Roll Eyes

It strikes me that you could have finished several projects in the time you've wasted in this thread. Tongue Wink

*PS. That remark is grossly unfair to the younger members of this forum to whom I apologise. Embarrassed
 
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Reply #46 - Sep 11th, 2005 at 8:24pm

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It might keep you amused but doesn't exactly give visitors to this forum the best impression of our hobby. Roll Eyes


If a hobby does not amuse & entertain you there is no point in doing it in the first place Grin

People who go through life worrying about what others think of them never seem to manage to do much of anything since whatever they do will surely offend somebody.

As to the specifics of this thread I don't believe I was rude to anyone, did not call anyone a vulgar name, did not challenge their parentage, did not challenge their intelligence & I am still looking for the insults you said I have allegedly heaped on my 12 year old opponents.

BTW I  don't think the total traffic on the Simviation CFS2/3 forums is enough to give a visitor much of an impression one way or another.  That being said this thread is generating some well above average traffic like all X vs. X threads do & if the guys who run the site have a problem with me they can always tell me to take a hike.


Quote:
It strikes me that you could have finished several projects in the time you've wasted in this thread.


I really do hate it when someone tries to manage my free time & the planes will get done when they are done. Grin  Actually,  I am not sure it really matters to you when we get done as IIRC you do not have CFS3.


 
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Reply #47 - Sep 11th, 2005 at 11:36pm

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People who go through life worrying about what others think of them never seem to manage to do much of anything since whatever they do will surely offend somebody.


Untrue

Quote:
As to the specifics of this thread I don't believe I was rude to anyone, did not call anyone a vulgar name, did not challenge their parentage, did not challenge their intelligence & I am still looking for the insults you said I have allegedly heaped on my 12 year old opponents.


People have different ways of taking the same thing, what might not be an insult in one counrty could be highly offending in another

Also you are also a part of this thread and have been one of the major parcipitors then you as well are acting like a 12 yr old.

 
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Reply #48 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 2:35am

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Where's the yawn smiley?
 
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Reply #49 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 5:04am

Bombardier101   Offline
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Please lets stop this very boring subject. There are  lot more interesting subject to be posted than this one. We are just hurting the Hobby we all love so much. Don"t you realize that. Both this Sims have their fuction in the Sim combat world.

Now let grow up and move on to other subjects please.


Maybe you're right, maybe you aren't. I would rather post about something else but this is all that's here right now though.

Quote:
Since CFS3 is probably one of the graphically ugliest Sims in existence


I disagree entirely! The graphics are absolutely 100% beautiful.

Quote:
I think you will find we released more CFS3 planes (105) then we did CFS2 planes (100) and in half the elapsed time.


That doesn't matter. What matters is really how difficult it is. There are many more designers making CFS3 addons. What really p!$$es me off is how CFS3 is getting most of the attention and a smaller number of designers like (example) Stiz, Fox Four Team, Thicko, Corsair Freak and Moi to soldier on doing the CFS2 stuff. I don't think GroundCrew does CFS2 any more either....they made good stuff Sad

Quote:
[img]


Actually a debate Grin

Quote:
[img]


Wtf, that's good! Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

Quote:
Not to worry, this thread is just a light duty time killer.

Yeah, but I would rather be talking about something more interesting Roll Eyes

Quote:
Apparently. As an outsider all I can see is some of the best freeware developers in the business trading insults like 12 year-olds.* All over nothing. It might keep you amused but doesn't exactly give visitors to this forum the best impression of our hobby. 

It strikes me that you could have finished several projects in the time you've wasted in this thread.   

*PS. That remark is grossly unfair to the younger members of this forum to whom I apologise.


Don't you mean 3 year olds? Grin Grin


CFS3 has a somewhat quirky engine so that is why I don't move on. I simply can't get myself to adapt to it's designing techniques. I'm attached to CFS2 and quickly adapted to it's designing, unlike CFS3 which is great but I don't play it much and I haven't learnt how to do addons for it. So I found it harder than CFS2 and because of that I thought "To hell with this, I'm sticking with CFS2, this CFS3 stuff is crazy!". Besides, I think it just wouldn't be natural for me to be designing for CFS3. Really it does sound strange.... Undecided


Hey James. The campaign is all very well and it will have heaps of missions (more than the stock campaign Lips Sealed). The Hamburg, Keil and Nürnburg scenery will be uploaded soon enough and Berlin '44 scenery is going well (only Tegel airport, searchlights, objects and final packaging and uploading to be done Grin). But scenery for the Nachtjagd Navigational Beacons in Germany will need to be done (no need to worry about data, I have all the info I need Grin). This campaign is turning into a large project, darn it! Angry Grin Grin Shocked 8) Still gonna be good though.... Wink

MS should put keep CFS2 on the shelves. As long as it isn't they won't make any money at all from it. They should think of us too!!! Angry Angry Angry Without it on the shelves our work for CFS2 will all be in vain and after a little bit of use out of them it will all be just some forgotten old crap that no one can use because by then no one has a clue what CFS2 is because MS CAN'T BE BOTHERED LEAVING IT ON SHELVES SINCE MAYBE THEY DIDN'T THINK OF US ADDON DESIGNERS AND OUR WORK!!! Angry Angry Angry Angry AND STEAM WILL RUN OUT ON CFS3 TOO BECAUSE SOON CFS3 WILL BE A SIM THAT NOBODY PLAYS ANYMORE OR EVEN KNOWS WHAT IT IS!!!! Angry Angry Angry Angry      Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad so sad...
 
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Reply #50 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 8:16am

AvHistory   Offline
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Quote:
People have different ways of taking the same thing, what might not be an insult in one counrty could be highly offending in another


Most of the guys in the thread except for Mathias are in the UK or US & since I have lived in both places I will respectly disagree that I offened anyone who was not specifically looking to be offended.  Cheesy

Quote:
Also you are also a part of this thread and have been one of the major parcipitors then you as well are acting like a 12 yr old.


Did not, did not & I am gonna tell you Mommy on you,  so there!!!  Tongue
 
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Reply #51 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 8:33am

Hagar   Offline
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Did not, did not & I am gonna tell you Mommy on you,  so there!!!  Tongue

LOL Grin

I was merely pointing out that this is exactly how newcomers will see some of these discussions. Casual visitors will not know who you are or your relationship to each other. It's very easy to misinterpret friendly jibes on a forum as heated arguments. This can give a bad impression & put people off joining our community. I've seen similar threads suddenly turn into an all-out flame war without warning which is why I now try to be more careful about what I say. This is not always successful as I enjoy a little friendly banter myself. Not everyone understands that & some must think I'm an argumentative old sausage.

It's none of my business but I think you have all made your points adequately. I think this thread has served its purpose, if it ever had one. Every combat sim has its fans & nothing anyone says will change that.

PS. I have very fond memories of the early days of CFS1 when each small step was a major breakthrough. We've come a long way since then but these were the most exciting times in the hobby for me.
 
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Reply #52 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 8:51am

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There are many more designers making CFS3 addons. What really p!$$es me off is how CFS3 is getting most of the attention Sad


There are about 66 developers listed on the CFS3 MAW & OFF staff pages along with a number of others who need to be added so figure about 75 guys.

If you take a look at the names then run through the CFS2 planes etc listed for download here at Simviation & other CFS2 sites you will see that a large portion of them have been created by these guys.

Its generally felt that we have paid our dues, done all we wanted to do with CFS2 & it was time to move on to a bigger more effective sandbox CFS3.

This is not all bad for CFS2 as it left a lot of room for new guys like some of y'all to come into the hobby & make your mark.

At some point both these games will be history just like many before them & you will also move on.

Only one flight sim has stood the test of time, since Amiga'89 for me, & that is Falcon.  Like Dracula it has risen yet again as Falcon 4:Allied Forces.  The reason, I believe, is because its a true simulator & not just an air combat game.  FS has also had a good run IMHO because it stresses its simulator side over its game side.

BTW in re-reading this before I posted it the 75 developers number popped up. I will bet we have more developers working on MAW/OFF then this CFS2 board has active members.  Shocked

 
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Reply #53 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 8:58am

Hagar   Offline
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If you take a look at the names then run through the CFS2 planes etc listed for download here at Simviation & other CFS2 sites you will see that a large portion of them have been created by these guys.

Methinks it might help if relative newcomers to the hobby like Bombardier knew the history of CFS & the part these people played in it.
 
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Reply #54 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 9:34am

AvHistory   Offline
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Wtf, that's good! Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked


...

Well I exaggerated just a little....truth is the cows don't do Meadow Muffins  Embarrassed  That being said if we packaged them as aircraft & set up a loadout for them..."Muffins Away" at the push of a button.

...

Then we would be forced to do multi national loadouts because I don't think these things do Meadow Muffins. ???

Thing is that kind of project can get out of hand quickly.  If we Muffined the cows what kind of load factor would be required by the new CFS3 Infantry when they are caught in an open field by fighters planes?  Grin

Quote:
I was merely pointing out that this is exactly how newcomers will see some of these discussions. Casual visitors will not know who you are or your relationship to each other. It's very easy to misinterpret friendly jibes on a forum as heated arguments

Methinks it might help if relative newcomers to the hobby like Bombardier knew the history of CFS & the part these people played in it.


Point taken.....GregP (SARGE - AvHistory) & I have been doing sim modification for about 17 years & some of other guys like Matthias (Ground Crew) pretty much as long.

Many of us including the three above have been testers & advisors to the developers of a number of the sims y'all have played.

We all know each other as well as you can after years over the net & many of us have met in person.

I really enjoy a spirited debate as by nature I am a competitive person, but I hope I do not step over the line & deliberately hurt someone's feelings.
 
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Reply #55 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 10:51am

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There are about 66 developers listed on the CFS3 MAW & OFF staff pages along with a number of others who need to be added so figure about 75 guys.

If you take a look at the names then run through the CFS2 planes etc listed for download here at Simviation & other CFS2 sites you will see that a large portion of them have been created by these guys.

Its generally felt that we have paid our dues, done all we wanted to do with CFS2 & it was time to move on to a bigger more effective sandbox CFS3.

This is not all bad for CFS2 as it left a lot of room for new guys like some of y'all to come into the hobby & make your mark.

At some point both these games will be history just like many before them & you will also move on.

Only one flight sim has stood the test of time, since Amiga'89 for me, & that is Falcon.  Like Dracula it has risen yet again as Falcon 4:Allied Forces.  The reason, I believe, is because its a true simulator & not just an air combat game.  FS has also had a good run IMHO because it stresses its simulator side over its game side.

BTW in re-reading this before I posted it the 75 developers number popped up. I will bet we have more developers working on MAW/OFF then this CFS2 board has active members.  Shocked



Well then, good luck with CFS3 guys. I just hope after us there will be some more people who will take up CFS2 dev and will enjoy our work also. Let's all just hope that that will happen with CFS1, CFS2 and CFS3. So far I think the FS/CFS getting all the attention is FS2004. It maybe nice and all but the only reason I don't fly FS much is well, no guns, bombs, rockets or anything that makes things go ka-bluey. The CFS series shows you the great old times of war and you get to fly historically, with weapons. FS is basicly just plan some cool flights and see some cool things and have some fun. But don't get me wrong, FS2002 Pro Edition is very good indeed! Grin

I hope to play CFS3 again sometime Wink

Quote:
but there's no new Developer's coming into the mix.


You must be joking. We have Thicko doing lovely planes (Akemi too!), Stiz making all kinds of wierd and wonderful things (take the WW1 project for a great example!), Corsair Freak does things like exhaust (alternative DPs) and sometimes scenery and I do alternative DPs, scenery, missions, campaigns and some small misc stuff. And now and again you may see someone you maybe don't normally see uploading putting in something for CFS2. Also Fox Four, which make the great Korea Campaigns and things like that. So how can you say we don't have new designers in the mix? We have plenty of good designers and maybe I would be classed as a 'new' one. Now if MS kept CFS2 on shelves and mentioned the great availabillity of new addons for it then CFS2 would live a long and happy life. And if the same were to go for 1 and 3, they too would live long, happy lives. That's my statement and in my opinion MS should get to and do it. This is a great hobby and it shouldn't die! Wink
 
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Reply #56 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 11:06am

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GZR_Groundhog just released the new MAW terrain to us for testing this morning.  Some samples

...


...


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Reply #57 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 11:13am

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I take my hat off to him. That is absolutely great work.

Well I am completely not anti-CFS3 just to let you know. All the sims are great and a lot of FS2004 will run on my FS2002.
 
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Reply #58 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 11:28am

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I take my hat off to him. That is absolutely great work. Well I am completely not anti-CFS3 just to let you know.


No problem, your thread gave as a chance to talk about what we are doing with CFS3.  Smiley
 
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Reply #59 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 11:39am

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It's nice to know something good is underway!

Projects of Mine:

Nachtjaeger! Campaign: WW2 Europe German Nightfighters

British Nightfighter Campaign: WW2 Europe British Nightfighters

Scenery for Nachtjaeger! Campaign: Nightfighting Scenery etc.

WW&C France WW1 scenery: For Stiz's WW1 project

If you want any details or anything like that, please just give me a PM! Wink

Of course, I'm working in a very small design team. So that's good, eh? Grin

Again, good luck with CFS3 and happy developing! Wink
 
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