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Best Aviation Career Advice (Read 2351 times)
Aug 7th, 2005 at 7:18pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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     For those of you who wish to start an airline career I have only one piece of advice to offer. The best way to become a professional pilot and be well paid is to GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL AND BECOME A GYNECOLOGIST. I sincerely wish that someone would have gone back and given me a severe beating for ever wanting to become a professional aviator. I know one thing is for sure, and that is - the day my little son says “I wanna be a pilot like daddy” I’m going to slap him as if he had called his mother a dirty name.

     After paying gobs of money to become a professional pilot with loan after loan and days of sweating and cursing my way through rating after license choking down bowl after bowl of Ramen Noodles while reading oral exam guides and text books 10 times over I finally became a flight instructor. I was elated! The day had finally come that I had a flying job and I could turn this hobby into a career! Then, after starving my way up the food chain as a flight instructor, driving a piece of shit car, eating a steady diet of Mac and cheese and doing my best to keep the creditors at bay on a miserable $1400 a month my resume finally got a bite and an interview date was set. I was very happy to be at the interview and I knew that becoming a commuter airline pilot would be a stepping stone to a much larger more rewarding career as a major airline pilot, a place to pay my dues and head into the career objective I have been so steadily steaming toward for so long. I have finally been hired by a commuter airline, a goal towards which I have striven for several years.

     Now many of you may have heard the joke “what do you call a commuter airline pilot without a girlfriend? –Homeless!” well that’s pretty much true. Despite the fact that I’m moving “up” in the world as so many people have said I feel more like I’m moving sideways. The pay is substantially better than the $1400 a month I’m used to – in fact I’ll be able to sprinkle salt and pepper on my Mac and Cheese now at a whopping $1600 a month! A first officer can expect an upgrade time somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 years. By then Pay is just teasing you with that $2,000 a month mark. If I want more than $50-75,000 annually with this particular airline I’ll have to dig into the trenches and hang on for 15 years minimum. And I chose these guys because they were offering the best pay for the best location of the 3 other airlines that chose to interview me.

      To help illustrate my frustration I have developed two lists, one is the pay scales of a commuter airline pilot Versus other jobs, the other is a list of things I wish I were told when I was a student pilot starting out in aviation.

List 1: Pay based on reports from salary.com

Job (entry level)                        Monthly Income

Fast Food Shift Manager………………………….. $2,160
High School Cafeteria Cook…… …………….… $2,000
Hair Stylist…………………………………………………. $1,700
Commuter Airline Pilot……………………………… $1,600
Shoe Salesman………………………………………... $1,200

List 2: Things the flight school personnel told me VS. What they meant to tell me.

What they said:
     “The airline industry is showing an upward trend in hiring, pay scales for even some of the lower end jobs are upwards of 50-100K a year depending on the company you work for.”

What they meant to say:
     “…of course you will be 45 years old before they pay you that well and they wont even look at your resume unless you know someone on the inside or have duked it out building time in a crap flying job for 3 or 4 years.”

What they said:
     “Learning to fly really isn’t that expensive. It is cheaper here in the U.S. than most other nations. It’s cheaper and easier now that it ever has been”

What they meant to say:
     “…You might want to take out a loan and buy your mom and sis a pretty dress or two and stick them on the roadside for a while… oh and your first, second and third born – forget about it.” (what do they do in other nations?)

What they said:
              “You hear a lot of stories about guys who have been working for the airlines for 30 years and retire as a senior captain with a lot of cash in the bank for their retirement.”

What they meant to say:
              “…Working for the airlines… plural… since they have been furloughed or fired from 4 or 5 airlines that went bankrupt in that 30 years span.”

What they said:
               “The lifestyle is a lot of fun, you get to travel a lot and your not away from home all that much… your will only spend a hand full of nights away from home every month.”

What they meant to say:
               “… being away from home all those nights will get you used to being alone when you finalize that third divorce!”

So – if you are considering a career in aviation, like I said, the best way to go about it is to be a gynecologist and fly whenever the hell you want to, wherever the hell you want to. I have met three gynecologist-pilots in my life. One owns a late model C-90, one owns a new Piper Seneca V, and the other a Saratoga. All for digging around in old cracks!

Will I fly for such low income? Yeah you know I will, because I love to fly. But that’s the only reason – you have to love and be married to this industry even though it will treat you like an inner city mutt in return! Otherwise its not going to work for ya. Good luck all!
 
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Reply #1 - Aug 8th, 2005 at 9:04am

Sytse   Offline
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Wow! That's another way to look at it... I just started looking around for flightschools. Thanks for the good advise. People tend to forget that they earn money when they 'recruit' you and they don't really give a **** about what happens to you after you have completed your training, so they can tell you whatever they want to get you in. And most people buy it...
 
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Reply #2 - Aug 8th, 2005 at 9:09am

Craig.   Offline
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like any job, you gotta work your way through the ranks to get the big money. its just annoying that in aviation you first have to pay a ton to even get there. As for going to med school. While yes the  job prospects leaving med school can sometimes pay well. the average med student leaves college/university/med school upwards of $100,000's in debt.
 
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Reply #3 - Aug 8th, 2005 at 9:09am

Antei   Offline
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Well, i'd rather earn 1600 and fly than earn 2000 and cook Tongue
 
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Reply #4 - Aug 8th, 2005 at 12:08pm

jrpilot   Offline
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Let me start off by saying this:  Don't get into aviation if you want to make millions right away.  Most pilots  go in and rent/buy a house to live in at their bases or what not.  also not sure on your airline but one rejional airline I know of you go from FO to Captain in 9 months on a beech 1900D, although there are a few guidlines to that.  the best way to get into aviation (as I was told by pilots) is go in single and without children so you have no one to owe other than creditors.  Aviation goes in waves and as you mentioned right now is a good (high) part but two days from now your airline or any airline may start putting pilots back on furlough.  The key is to never settle in when you are young I've heard many stories of pilots loosing jobs bacause they missed a day at work and the recruiters came and picked other people.

Those are just my feelings..
May I ask which commuter airline you work for?
 
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Reply #5 - Aug 8th, 2005 at 1:16pm

beefhole   Offline
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Exactly why I have no intentions of taking the civilian way up-only as an absolute last resort will I take the CFI route.
 
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Reply #6 - Aug 8th, 2005 at 2:40pm

TacitBlue   Offline
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And there's why I don't want to fly for an airline. I make as much now as I would for the first 5-10 years. Plus I'm not interested at all in flying heavy iron. I would love to fly light planes for a living, but I don't yet know in what capacity.
 

...
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Aircraft are naturally beautiful because form follows function. -TB
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Reply #7 - Aug 8th, 2005 at 7:53pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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This post was originally typed up more for humor than anything. But there is a great deal of truth to it as well.

As with anything you have to start at the bottom and work your way up. It just so happens that the bottom of the airline industry is quite a ways down there.

I have enjoyed the heck out of being a flight instructor. Im not knocking that profession, but yes being single and childless helps! There is only so much 50 cent Cup Ramen to go around. I have made a lot of life long friends in the process of instructing and a lot of fascinating people have crossed my path (Gynecologists included).

I cannot mention the exact name of the commuter - but it is strongly affiliated with a very American Airline.

Yep, there is a slight hiring trend right now, and as mentioned it comes and goes in waves so surfs up for the time being.

I would love nothing more than to settle down in a nice town and fly some rich guy's Citation around all over the place but lets face it those jobs are few and far between in some areas and you really have to know someone to get into that sort of gig. Ill do this for now, my long term goal is to become an Examiner and do Private and Instrument check rides. I think that would be fun!
 
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Reply #8 - Aug 10th, 2005 at 10:59am

EGNX   Offline
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Who cares about income and all that nonsence. im gonna be a pilot and thats final and none of you are going to stop me  Angry Grrrrrrrrrrr.....
 

...
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Reply #9 - Aug 10th, 2005 at 1:03pm

jrpilot   Offline
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Quote:
Who cares about income and all that nonsence.



Not that anyone has said this around here before  Lips Sealed, but it used to be and probally still is thought that pilots start off making $100,000 a year when we know that is far from the truth.

Also I see this post was made for some humour, but if anyone wants to be a pilot or any job I would suggest you do lots of research on it by talking with people in that profession.  Just don't get into a profession you have no idea about other thatn the outside.  Just my opinion.
 
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Reply #10 - Aug 10th, 2005 at 1:09pm

Craig.   Offline
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Quote:
Who cares about income and all that nonsence. im gonna be a pilot and thats final and none of you are going to stop me  Angry Grrrrrrrrrrr.....

The bank cares. The guys who you owe money to on credit cards or loans care. They really couldn't give a rats backside if your doing the job because you love it, if your not earning the money to pay them, then you'll care. Dont wish to put a downer on it and i know the first post was more of a lighthearted joke but the sad fact is many pilots cant even afford to pay back their flight school loans.
 
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Reply #11 - Aug 10th, 2005 at 1:17pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
Who cares about income and all that nonsence. im gonna be a pilot and thats final and none of you are going to stop me  Angry Grrrrrrrrrrr.....


Some civil servant at the MoD might try though if you take the service route! Grin You get paid well quite well though, and it has its benefits... Smiley

(Do you like 1 (F) Sqn?)
 
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Reply #12 - Aug 15th, 2005 at 1:58am

MadDriver   Offline
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And that's why I decided not to be a pilot and become an air traffic controller!   Grin  I have to admit... I agree with you!  ahaha
 
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Reply #13 - Aug 15th, 2005 at 12:49pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
And that's why I decided not to be a pilot and become an air traffic controller!


Ahhhhh! Not one of them! Shocked Wink Grin
 
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Reply #14 - Aug 15th, 2005 at 1:48pm

beefhole   Offline
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Quote:
And that's why I decided not to be a pilot and become an air traffic controller!   Grin

Huh ???

I thought all ATCers were automated robots!....

BOT! Angry

Grin Grin
 
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Reply #15 - Aug 15th, 2005 at 2:46pm

jrpilot   Offline
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Quote:
And that's why I decided not to be a pilot and become an air traffic controller!


That is my fall back if I can't be a pilot.

But remember that an ATCer has lots of stress.  Which many can't handle and if you make one mistake its your job...and possible many peoples lifes
 
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Reply #16 - Aug 15th, 2005 at 6:35pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
That is my fall back if I can't be a pilot.



It also happens to be one of mine... Grin
 
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Reply #17 - Aug 15th, 2005 at 10:05pm

JackieAdkins   Offline
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Correct me if I am wrong but one of my High School teachers told me that an ATC job has the highest divorce rate of anyjob.

jackie
 

THE OBJECT OF WAR IS NOT TO DIE FOR YOUR COUNTRY BUT TO MAKE THE OTHER BASTARD DIE FOR HIS.&&&&...&&&&&&&&
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Reply #18 - Aug 15th, 2005 at 10:17pm

jrpilot   Offline
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Quote:
Correct me if I am wrong but one of my High School teachers told me that an ATC job has the highest divorce rate of anyjob.

jackie


You may be right, but I thought a pilot would be worse since they are gone way more time for the most part and receive less pay.
 
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Reply #19 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 2:49pm

TacitBlue   Offline
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I get stressed out just thinking about being an ATCer. Flying however is the most relaxing thing on earth. Grin
 

...
A&P Mechanic, Rankin Aircraft 78Y

Aircraft are naturally beautiful because form follows function. -TB
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Reply #20 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 3:09pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
Flying however is the most relaxing thing on earth. Grin


I wish it felt like that most weekdays! Cheesy
 
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Reply #21 - Aug 20th, 2005 at 1:58pm

Drake_TigerClaw   Offline
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Yeah, I'm about to start flight school. Its gonna be fun being a poor pilot for a few years but you gotta start somewhere. I'm actually working at FedEx right now but I think once I get my certs up I dont want to fly for them, I might get stuck on an island with a volley ball as my only friend. But I did find a great FAA funded school in my state where I can get a two year degree, single enige VFR,IFR,Commercial, and flight instructor certifications for about 25,000. *Will be living on various cheap things that I can cook for the next two years* Heres to being underpaid! *Lifts a glass*
 

~Drake TigerClaw&&...
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Reply #22 - Aug 21st, 2005 at 10:31pm
Jakemaster   Ex Member

 
there are other aviation related careers though.  Not all involve flying for a living.  Take for example aerospace engineering, my planned career path.  You get to design the planes, and make enough money to become a private pilot.
 
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Reply #23 - Aug 21st, 2005 at 10:53pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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shoot i love the job. besides i cant do anything else but draw. in fact i was going to school to be an architect when i started lessons for my private license. though the pay isnt great the job IS and i would recommend it to anyone that loves to fly.
 
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Reply #24 - Aug 21st, 2005 at 10:55pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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besides female anatomy is my other passion... so gynocology isnt all that bad either!!! hahaha JK im sure its a pretty messy job LOL
 
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Reply #25 - Aug 22nd, 2005 at 1:40am

Drake_TigerClaw   Offline
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Before I decided to go out for my license I was on the path to being a graphic designer. It was a lucky coincidence that I found out about the flight program while spouting off a lot of seemingly useless aviation history to people at the smithsomian extension at the washington-dulles airport (you should go if you like aviation museums, the place is huge). Cartooning and design of ads or doing CADD work is the only other stuff I'm any good at. Maybe I can lay out aircraft paint schemes as a side job.
 

~Drake TigerClaw&&...
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Reply #26 - Aug 22nd, 2005 at 1:21pm

RitterKreuz   Offline
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wow thats cool almost the same background as me. I designed one aircraft paint scheme so far that is actually in use. I have also designed the logo to a local Auto Dealership and the company logo for the flight school where i work.
 
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Reply #27 - Sep 2nd, 2005 at 1:44pm

Tom_M   Offline
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In England, FOs/pilots are actually quite well paid (£70,000/$140,000 as FO I think) and pilots get- upto I think- £120,000/$240,000 and that's with a 'budget' airline.

(I think the exchange rate is actually about £1=$1.60 not $2 like it was but I don't have a calculator... Tongue)

"Only in America are pilots paid worse than the kid at Taco-Bell" is what I think Michael Moore said...
 

-Games PC-&&AMD 3200+ (due for replacement)&&1GB RAM&&256MB 7600GS Overclocked
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Reply #28 - Sep 2nd, 2005 at 3:02pm

jrpilot   Offline
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Quote:
In England, FOs/pilots are actually quite well paid (£70,000/$140,000 as FO I think) and pilots get- upto I think- £120,000/$240,000 and that's with a 'budget' airline.

(I think the exchange rate is actually about £1=$1.60 not $2 like it was but I don't have a calculator... Tongue)

"Only in America are pilots paid worse than the kid at Taco-Bell" is what I think Michael Moore said...



Pilots for the most part are paid excellent if they fly for one airline for 12+ years.  But if you plan on flying and starting off at that salary you have a HUGE reality check coming.  First year rj pilots make $15,000 a year...eh, something tells me there is something wrong....especially if someone on steriods who hits a ball 400 feet gets paid millions every year....
 
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Reply #29 - Sep 6th, 2005 at 4:43pm

Drake_TigerClaw   Offline
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Atlanta, Ga, USA

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Quote:
In England, FOs/pilots are actually quite well paid (£70,000/$140,000 as FO I think) and pilots get- upto I think- £120,000/$240,000 and that's with a 'budget' airline.

(I think the exchange rate is actually about £1=$1.60 not $2 like it was but I don't have a calculator... Tongue)

"Only in America are pilots paid worse than the kid at Taco-Bell" is what I think Michael Moore said...



Well in america we have this free market economy thing where you are worth exactly what someone will pay you for your services above minimum wage. Unfortunately pilots are all likely to start very small but if you want it its worth it I suppose. I want it. And Michale Moore can say what he wants, I still hate him.
 

~Drake TigerClaw&&...
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