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After studying this at some length I have come to believe that Hitler did not want or expect a prolonged campaign against Britain. He had achieved his objectives in Western Europe & would have wished to turn his attention to the East, which had always been his main objective. If he couldn't persuade the British government to join him as an ally a non-aggression pact of some sort would have suited hs purposes. He was an admirer of the British Empire & well aware that he was not only fighting a small island. Hitler also had a number of sympathisers in the British government & even the previous King Edward had been on friendly terms before his abdication. He had visited Berlin on several occasions & had been warmly welcomed. I have often wondered what the rest of the Empire would have done had Britain come to such an agreement.

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These speeches were almost certainly made after Winston Churchill took over as Prime Minister. The much-maligned Neville Chamberlain would have sacrificed almost anything to avoid war but even he realised that he'd failed. I'm sure this was the reason for his death not long afterwards. He died a broken man with everything he passionately believed in shattered.

I'm still not convinced the "accidental" bombiing of London by a single crew was the cause of the Luftwaffe's change of tactics over to night-bombing - the London Blitz. It's a nice story but I think this is based more on the film "Battle of Britain" rather than fact. If it's true I certainly hadn't seen or heard this mentioned anywhere until seeing the film soon after its release. Several raids on different parts of the city had been reported on the day this is supposed to have happened. They could not all have been accidental. This is the official Air Ministry record of that day, 24th August 1940. http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/august24.html Berlin was bombed the following night although this was a token raid causing minimal damage. What is known as the London Blitz officially started on the night of 7th September. A period of intense bombing of London and other cities that continued until the following May.

There might well have been an element of rancour on Hiltler's part but I think this was more likely due to necessity - to avoid more heavy losses in daylight raids, just as RAF Bomber Command was forced into some months later.

I"m sorry but I happen to to agree with Hadgar. What you just wrote is a official History recount wich usually runs short of the truth in many occations.

One must remember that Hitler wanted to invaded Russia in the Atumm of 1940. His General Staff convinced him that the Army was not ready for such a large campaign and that it was in late the year and winter was around the corner.

For once he listem to his General Staff. A invation was never serously planned. Their was a vague plan to invade England with a large paratrooper force followed by a naval force landing. The plan was to destroy the British frces in southern England encircle London and starve them to  capitulation.

It was never implemented. The plan was not to force England by invation to become a relactant Ally.

What the Nazis wanted was to humiliate Churchill by destroying the RAF and pressuring the British Goverment  into a no confident vote.  Get rid of Churchill and replace him with a prime miniter that they could  nagociate a peace agreement with.

You have to remember that the Nazis though they had destroy Englands Radar system. They over estimated the damage they had done to the RAF. They developed a bad habit of over claiming kills that persisted until the End of the war.  

Since they though that RAF was destroy they started the secound phase by tryiong to destroy London the heart of the British Impire.

They miscalculated the resiliancy of the RAF. When they tried to finnished the RAF off they got a rude awakening.

The Battle of Britain did happen. The British people should be very proud of they performance. They did not allowed a the evil Nazis to change the course in History to give in to their pressure.

It just did not happen as we have been told.

If the British people would not have standed as defiant as they did to the Nazis. Western World History would have been totally diferent as we know it today.

So we who appreciate Western value and freedom do owe do them.

NEVER IN FIELD OF ARMS HAVE SO MANY OWE SO MUCH TO SO FEW.

This is only a opinion

James007

As this thread has wandered on to the BoB I would like to make a few comments before leaving it. There seem to be certain common misconceptions which I would like to correct.

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The fact is that they did not fully appreciate the importance of those RADAR stations. These were more difficult targets than they might appear & obviously heavily defended. The Ju 87 was the only practical means of putting them out of action & this had been permanently withdrawn from front-line service as I mentioned earlier.

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Both sides overclaimed kills. This is normal in air warfare but if anything the German figures were more accurate. Like the British in WWI, the Luftwaffe was at a distinct disadvantage. The action was over enemy territory & the escort fighters were operating at the limits of their range with a very short time over target. They had perhaps as little as 10 minutes before being forced to run for home. This involved crossing the English Channel.

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An airborne invasion was what the British feared most. Everyone in the country was on the lookout for parachutists & defences were in place to deal with them. This was the main reason the Home Guard had been formed in early 1940. In fact Germany did not have the large numbers of paratroops & airborne forces they imagined. Even with total air superiority paratroops are no use unless backed up by conventional forces as the British found out at Arnhem in 1944.

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It was actually a very close-run thing. Britain was fortunate in having the recently developed Chain Home RADAR system & the modern fighters to take advantage of a coordinated early warning & fighter control system. Fortunately Air Chief Marshal Dowding the CinC RAF Fighter Command realised the value of this. Although those tall masts look vulnerable they are very difficult to attack from the air. The operators & important parts of the station were often some distance away from the masts & possibly below ground. Some RADAR stations were put out of action but operating again by the the next day, sometimes from reserve mobile units in other locations. The RADAR station at Poling not far from my home town was attacked on August 18th & out of action for the rest of the month. This was a serious break in the chain but the system kept operating. Significantly, this was the same day that the Ju 87 was withdrawn from the battle.

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This is how I see it. Breathing space. The non-aggression pact with Stalin is a good example.

I could go on but this would take several pages so I'll leave it here.

Hadgar you have confirm what I have written. The diference is you are a more historically detail man and I"m more overall generalist.



The fact is that they did not fully appreciate the importance of those RADAR stations.

Yes is true. But also thuoght that they had done enough damage to it to have made it unusable.


Both sides overclaimed kills. This is normal in air warfare but if anything the German figures were more accurate.

Yes your right again. The British erroneus record where of propagada use and also they had no choice but to continue fighting regardless of what kind of erroneous book keeping system they had. The German in the other hand where totally depended on accurate records to able to manage the development of the Battle properly.

It was actually a very close-run thing. Britain was fortunate in having the recently developed Chain Home RADAR system & the modern fighters to take advantage of a coordinated early warning & fighter control system.

Yes it was close run. Both sides had heavy loses. But the Germans though at the time that they where wininng the numbers war. They had very poor intelligence throughout the war. They also overestimated their kills as well throughout the war. All Aiforces did this but for the Germans and Japanese it was a fatal flaw.

In fact Germany did not have the large numbers of paratroops & airborne forces they imagined.

Proves my comment that Operation Sea Lion was a very vague plan that was nerver really taken serously by the German High command.

This has been only a opinion

James007

Wasnt half the reason for Germanys bad intellegence,  is that none of the German soldiers ever wanted to report claims of failure,  in fear of what would happen to them.  Failure was just not an option.

Either way Hitler and the whole Nazi party were a bunch of power hungry idiots who bit off more then they can chew.

Hadgar I"m very impress with your knowlege and Objectvity. Its very hard this days to find people that are objective.

Beign object is difficult for all of us humans cluding my self.

I find you to be very engaging and intelligent. Only a highly intelligent people can be obective not allowing  their emotions to overide their inteligence.

Every rule has its exception and I "m the exception. LoL

Its a lot more Historically Romantic when it comes to the Battle of Britain if you think that RAF saved it from a  Invation.

But you think about it. Its the truth is as traumatic and heroic if think about it. That the RAF was able to resist the might of the Nazis Military and not allow it to impose its will on its people.

If you really think about it the real heroes in this Battle where the British people.

They could have demanded a Govermental change and aks for peace. That made all the perfect sense in the World. They did not. The rest is history.

No I"m not from your part of the World. That perhaps gives me a advantage.

I have never seen the World through single point of view. I have been like this since I was a kid.

I always seen the the big scope of things and not concentrate in my little part of the world.

I hope no one takes this as a  insult.

I do miss sometimes the detail. No one is perfect.

Thats the reason I will always see this war from a global perpective and not just from the European nor Far East view.

Its been a pleasure and a learning experience posting with you and the others.

This is not a point of view but a statement.

James007

Yes,Hadgar. Churchill was the simgle most important man in western history in since the last millinium.

Its no exagaration  when one considers what could have happen without him been there when the western world needed him the most.

You must remember he also needed a strong people to followed him as well.

IF THE BRITISH EMPIRE LAST ONE THOUSAND YEARS
LET THEM SAY,
THIS WAS THEIR FINEST HOUR.

Well the Empire did not last one years. But it was sure its greatest moment.

This is only a opinion.

I will write one more post on this subject later. You guys can continue without me. I hope you keep writting on this subject. I will learn from you guys instead after that.

Thank you

PS please remember World war two was a global war. Treat as such. I guarantee you will enjoy the story a lot more.

Do not forget the Forgotten Army, the Fourteenth.

James007

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You seem to have a thing about the Bearcat. I've seen a Bearcat & Sabre displayed at Duxford several times in the last couple of seasons. I last saw the Sabre at Old Warden a couple of weeks ago along with the Sea Fury. They're all nice aircraft but just remember speed isn't everything.