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Australian submarines in WW2 (Read 157 times)
Jul 23rd, 2005 at 5:04am

Bombardier101   Offline
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What did Australian subs do in WW2? I read in a book that they were very silent machines. I've also been inside the HMAS Ovens. T'was huge! But what did they do? ???
 
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Reply #1 - Jul 23rd, 2005 at 7:40am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
Lurk around underwater and sink ship, just like every other submarine. Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #2 - Jul 23rd, 2005 at 9:22am

Stratobat   Offline
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Quote:
Lurk around underwater and sink ship, just like every other submarine. Roll Eyes


Lmao, I think Bombardier is looking for a little more info than that Tongue

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Reply #3 - Jul 23rd, 2005 at 9:37am

Hagar   Offline
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I think this answers the question. Australia had no submarines during WWII. http://www.navy.gov.au/history/subhistory.htm

Quote:
British insistence that the Royal Navy could not alone bear the burden of the Empire's Naval Defence led to the commissioning of the submarines OXLEY and OTWAY in 1927. However, because of the London Naval Treaty of 1930 and the onset of the Great Depression, these boats were handed back to the Royal Navy. For the third time the RAN Submarine Service was nullified. It is noteworthy that OXLEY was sunk in error by the British submarine HMS TRITON in late 1939. Only the Commanding Officer and one sailor survived the disaster and she became the first submarine casualty of WWII. Apart from the Dutch submarine 'K9' used for training during the war years, Australia did not operate submarines for 36 years. However, during the period 1949-69 a total of 10 Royal Navy 'A' and 'T' class submarines were stationed in Sydney. The cost of operating these submarines was met jointly by the governments of Australia and New Zealand.

Quote:
The fourth and more permanent attempt to establish the Royal Australian Navy's Submarine Service began with the purchase in 1967 of the six 'Oberon' class boats from the United Kingdom. In August of that year the Submarine Support Depot HMAS PLATYPUS was commissioned for the support of the new submarines. The Oberon class boats, HMA Submarines OXLEY, OTWAY, OVENS, ONSLOW, ORION and OTAMA have served the RAN and our nation faithfully over the ensuing three decades.

Quote:
The Oberon class have now ended their operational life. The submarines OXLEY, OTWAY, OVENS, ORION, OTAMA and ONSLOW have all been withdrawn from service.
 
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Reply #4 - Jul 24th, 2005 at 3:00am

H   Offline
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Quote:
What did Australian subs do in WW2? I read in a book that they were very silent machines. I've also been inside the HMAS Ovens. T'was huge! But what did they do? ???

Whatever you Aussies did, we used our WW2 'ovens' for baking. Tongue Grin Grin Grin
 
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Reply #5 - Jul 25th, 2005 at 4:43am
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
Hey, Heretic!
I don't see your country winning any wars!
Smartass bastard..... Tongue


A.
 
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Reply #6 - Jul 25th, 2005 at 7:27am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Hey, Heretic!
I don't see your country winning any wars!
Smartass bastard..... Tongue


But we generally did quite well on all fronts...
 
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Reply #7 - Jul 25th, 2005 at 9:11am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
But we generally did quite well on all fronts...

Agreed. Especially the U-Boats.
Quote:
The Battle of the Atlantic was "the only thing that ever frightened me."

Winston Churchill.
 
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Reply #8 - Jul 25th, 2005 at 11:46am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
Well, but Churchill could sleep better from 1942, on, when the Battle of the Atlantic became a sloughterhouse for the U-Boats.
 
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Reply #9 - Jul 25th, 2005 at 12:07pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
From what I understand the "Battle of the Atlantic" was the longest running campaign during World War Two.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
 
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Reply #10 - Jul 26th, 2005 at 5:30am
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
I actually do feel incredibly sorry for all involved in the battle of the Atlantic.
After reading Das-Boot I found a real sense of awe and respect for those submariners.


A.
 
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Reply #11 - Jul 26th, 2005 at 5:30am
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
I actually do feel incredibly sorry for all involved in the battle of the Atlantic.
After reading Das-Boot I found a real sense of awe and respect for those submariners.


A.
 
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Reply #12 - Jul 26th, 2005 at 7:04am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
...but no respect for double posts. Wink Grin
 
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Reply #13 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 2:37am
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
Lol, shame on me as my latin teacher said today...


A.
 
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Reply #14 - Jul 27th, 2005 at 10:26pm

Stratobat   Offline
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Quote:
Hey, Heretic!
I don't see your country winning any wars!
Smartass bastard..... Tongue


Lmao, Hehehe Tongue

Anybody ever picked up a book by Sean Houghton called The Ace of Hades?

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Reply #15 - Jul 29th, 2005 at 5:56am

Bombardier101   Offline
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Thanks for the headsup Hagar. Wink

Hey, the Germans didn't do bad and they could've won something if it wasn't for smartass Hitler and smartass Goering.
 
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Reply #16 - Jul 29th, 2005 at 7:09am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
Quote:
...smartass Goering.


Don't even get me started on that fatso.
 
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Reply #17 - Jul 30th, 2005 at 2:52am

Bombardier101   Offline
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He was so fat the Luftwaffe wanted to use him for a barrage balloon. You'll get barrage from that... Grin

I have a relative who is German...
 
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Reply #18 - Jul 30th, 2005 at 4:09am

H   Offline
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Quote:
Don't even get me started on that fatso.

What happened to Udet, the 2nd highest scoring WW1 German ace, the highest scoring to survive that war?
Goering, Gestapo....
Goering soon took over M.vonRichthofen's command; should have substituted for him in that Dr-1 on April 21, 1918. In fact, I now question the loss of Manfred's immediate successor whom Goering replaced. Angry
 
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Reply #19 - Jul 30th, 2005 at 6:32am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
Goering was still stuck in the thinking schemes of WW1, in which the air forces were just supporting the ground troops.
Don't forget that Goering was a quite successful fighter pilot himself.

Quote:
The last Commander in 1918 of the Richthofen Fighter Squadron, Goering distinguished himself as an air ace, credited with shooting down twenty-two Allied aircraft. Awarded the Pour le Merite and the Iron Cross (First Class), he ended the war with the romantic aura of a much decorated pilot and war hero.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/goering.html

The disgusting thing about him were his empty promises. His best action may have been providing an inpenetrable fighter cover for the breakout of the Scharnhorst & co out of Brest in 1942, though I doubt that this was his idea.

Quote:
The Germans had put a great deal of thought into Operation Cerberus. British coastal radar had been jammed as a matter of course – but by February 1942, the success of the jamming had become extensive. Vice-Admiral Ciliax, commander of the battle-cruisers, could also sail knowing that the Luftwaffe could provide a total of 280 fighter planes to give aerial cover for the duration of the journey. Colonel Adolf Galland, charged with the task for the Luftwaffe, had mostly formidable Me-109’s and FW-190’s at his disposal, along with Me-110’s. From the start of the journey, Ciliaz could expect a minimum of 16 fighters covering his force and a maximum of 32. When he got near to the Straits of Dover, this number would be increased significantly.


http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/operation_cerberus.htm
 
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Reply #20 - Jul 30th, 2005 at 7:14am

Hagar   Offline
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Strange how this thread has wandered off-topic. Goering was faced with the same problems as any commander-in-chief. I don't think he was as stupid or incompetent as he's usually portrayed. All commanders rely on subordinates to advise on new tactics & keep them informed on day-to-day events. The sensible & successful ones take note of what these advisers tell them. It seems a trait of the Nazi hierarchy to blame their subordinates for their own mistakes instead of listening to their advice. Goering might also have been scared for his own job & even his life. Hitler did not like being told he was wrong although I believe he trusted Goering more than perhaps he realised. Goering had been a fit & competent airman, an officer of the old school. I think the huge responsibilty of running the Luftwaffe under a leader like Hitler turned him in to the bloated, caricature of himself he was to become in later years.

Quote:
Goering was not actually blind to reality. I would occasionally hear him make perceptive comments on the situation. Rather, he acted like a bankrupt who up to the last moment wants to deceive himself along with his creditors. [His] Capricious treatment and blatant refusal to accept reality had already driven the first chief of Air Force Procurement, the famous fighter pilot Ernst Udet, to his death in 1941.

Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich (1970)
 
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Reply #21 - Aug 2nd, 2005 at 2:17am

H   Offline
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Quote:
Strange how this thread has wandered off-topic. Goering was faced with the same problems as any commander-in-chief. I don't think he was as stupid or incompetent as he's usually portrayed. All commanders rely on subordinates to advise on new tactics & keep them informed on day-to-day events. The sensible & successful ones take note of what these advisers tell them. It seems a trait of the Nazi hierarchy to blame their subordinates for their own mistakes instead of listening to their advice. Goering might also have been scared for his own job & even his life. Hitler did not like being told he was wrong although I believe he trusted Goering more than perhaps he realised. Goering had been a fit & competent airman, an officer of the old school. I think the huge responsibilty of running the Luftwaffe under a leader like Hitler turned him in to the bloated, caricature of himself he was to become in later years.

I suppose the "Re:" should be changed since the only direct connection seems to be in the "sub"ordinates reference (also having their important roles in submarines).
I agree with your description of the "Nazi hierarchy" but abstain from such regarding Göring. My reference to Udet came up because my studies for my WW1 campaign went off track (encyclopedias & dictionaries provide such a danger). There was a reference somewhere that, just before his suicide, Udet had written, "Eiserner, warum hast du mich verlassen?" (Heretic may better translate this). I believe Eiserner was Göring's nickname and the rest is "why have you foresaken me?" Udet (who was never a confirmed Nazi Party member), being blamed for anything and everything, had recently sought support from Göring (who refused Udet's resignation, yet put blame on him).
WW1 was a different war; not as chivilrous as sometimes perceived but more so than WW2, an officer not only was responsible for his subordinates but he was expected to fend for them (Göring became Udet's commander in WW1). Even M.vonRichthofen was known to stay away from the fray and attack an enemy getting the jump on one of his own. The nickname "Snoopy" may have been applied to A.Roy Brown for the same reason (as he flew above his flight and attacked anyone threatening them). Udet found this code broken by the Göring of the Nazi regime (the more I've noted of Göring, however, I question whether he truly had concern for his subordinates in WW1 but rather went through the "actions" to further his own advancement). I would agree that Udet may have been an officer 'of' the old school but Göring may have only been an officer 'in' the old school.
 
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Reply #22 - Aug 2nd, 2005 at 2:46am

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You could be correct. I've never studied the history of Goering in depth. Jealousy & ambition are not confined to Germans or Nazis. For example: what happened to Air Chief Marshal Sir Hugh Dowding after the Battle of Britain was a national disgrace.

Quote:
Somehow, the Battle of Britain has become associated with the name of Churchill, because of his leadership and oratory. Many, perhaps most, thought then, and still think today, that "the future of the world rested on his shoulders." They were, and are, mistaken. We could have won the Battle of Britain without Churchill, but there was one man without whom we could not have won it - the commander-in-chief of Fighter Command, Hugh Dowding.

Dowding not only created Fighter Command from the ground up and prepared it for war when it came; he also out-thought and out-fought the enemy and thereby changed the course of history by making of Great Britain an unsinkable platform from which the great assaults which would eventually topple Nazi Germany could be unleashed in the years ahead.

Why then is the name of the victor of this Battle virtually unknown? Why is there not a second column in central London beside that of Nelson? Are you ready for a shock? The Air Ministry sacked Dowding in November 1940, just three weeks after the Battle of Britain was won. Moreover, the Air Council connived in the appointment to Dowding's command of an air marshal who had been scheming throughout the Battle to undermine Dowding's authority and to usurp his position. This usurper, though quite unfit for his new command, nevertheless prospered throughout the war.

There is more. In 1941 the Air Ministry published an official account entitled The Battle of Britain. It concludes with these words: "Such was the Battle of Britain. Future historians may compare it with Marathon, Trafalgar and the Marne." Yet the name of Dowding is nowhere mentioned in it, or his existence even alluded to. The suppression of Dowding's role in the victory was deliberate. The Air Ministry put out an 'explanation' that is as close to a lie as an official statement can be. From that day onward the Air Ministry denied Dowding all recognition, reward and promotion for accomplishments that can only be called heroic.

http://www.woodfieldpublishing.com/index.html?lang=en-uk&target=p115.html
 
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Reply #23 - Aug 2nd, 2005 at 8:50am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
Quote:
"Eiserner, warum hast du mich verlassen?"
[...] and the rest is "why have you foresaken me?"


Correct.
 
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Reply #24 - Aug 23rd, 2005 at 2:12am

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was hitler burried in a cemetary?
 
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Reply #25 - Aug 23rd, 2005 at 5:49am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
a) No.
b) Who wanted to bury him anyways?
c) His and Eva Braun's bodies were burned.
d) The only thing left of him is a piece of skull somewhere in the depth of some russian archives.
 
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Reply #26 - Sep 21st, 2005 at 5:55am

Bombardier101   Offline
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I would say d)! Grin
 
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