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Overclocking the Athlon 64 on nForce4 (Read 769 times)
Jul 19th, 2005 at 4:22am

congo   Offline
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It took a while to familiarise myself with the BIOS of my new Asus A8N-SLI mainboard. It's got an nForce4  SLI chipset, though I am not planning to use SLI mode in the immediate or foreseeable future.

I bought a AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice cored CPU to wind it up with.

I have some rather ordinary o/c-ing ram, it's Kingmax PC3500 - 434mhz in 2 x 512mb modules. The modules are quite diffferent in appearance, ) one is tiny BGA and the other has normal size chips, one yellow and one red lol ), but their architecture is nearly identical and they work well together.

I turned off all the fancy stuff in the BIOS and went to manual settings where i set the FSB to 218mhz, and tightened up my ram timings a little to 7-3-3-2.5, (SPD is 8-4-4-2.5).

I'm running it at 2.4ghz (218mhz fsb x 11 cpu multiplier) and it gives me a benchmark equal to a 3.7ghz P4.

I bought a Leadtek GF 6600GT 128mb PCIe G-card and overclocked it straight to 550/1100 gpu/mem. All in all, the speeds are up 10% on the standard settings and everything is running very well indeed.

I was a little disappointed to get only 9340 3D marks in 3D Mark '03, but all my sims are running smooth at high settings, so I can't complain a bit.

That compares to 5950 marks for my previous FX5900XT g-card, a difference of 3500 marks, or over a 65% improvement.

I booted the 3500+ at 230mhz and got a blue screen when windows loaded, so it looks like the multplier will need to be dropped for a big FSB overclock if I buy new faster ram later on.

And yes, the multiplier on this Venice CPU is top locked only, so the 11x stock setting can be reduced fortunately.

EDIT:   I under-clocked it just to see how it worked today, then completely forgot about it, hosted some Forgotten Battles servers and flew all night, not even noticing the difference...... Now that's a fast rig!
« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2005 at 12:58pm by congo »  

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #1 - Jul 19th, 2005 at 2:18pm

the_autopilot   Offline
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Congrats.

BTW, another 6600 gt is not that expensive and you'll be set for some time. That will give you a higher 3dmark03 score if you wish. Keep in mind though, that this will help most other games except fs2004. You will see a drop in fps should you use SLI in fs2004.

If you need any help with the BIOS, just ask. I have the same mobo (actually, I have the premium versian of the A8N-SLI, but the only difference is the digital SLI switch as opposed to the interface card SLI switch).


Quote:
EDIT:   I under-clocked it just to see how it worked today, then completely forgot about it, hosted some Forgotten Battles servers and flew all night, not even noticing the difference...... Now that's a fast rig!

Thats probably because that game isn't very CPU intensive/dependant. You would notice the fps drop if you played a game like half life2.
 

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Reply #2 - Jul 23rd, 2005 at 5:27am

congo   Offline
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Actually,  I do have a query.

When I selected manual setups in both the cpu and memory configurations in bios, I tried to get higher performance in using certain configurations there.

What would happen is that certain settings simply wouldn't "stick", that is, when I rebooted, I found that the changes did'nt effect, and in fact, the bios reverted to "auto" settings, as if the bios is running a logical protection routine that prevents incorrect or unattainable configurations.

On trying again, I noticed that the changes I made were not sticking once I changed to the other bios page and then back again.

Is the bios actually intelligent enough to do this as a protective mechanism? Most bios would simply effect the changes and cause boot failure or bios defaults to load.

It doesn't seem possible to "force" the hardware into dodgy specs.

Any ideas on this?
 

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #3 - Jul 23rd, 2005 at 8:15pm

the_autopilot   Offline
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I know the mobo has some protection routines, but resetting its own settings is not one of them, at least on my mobo.

It could be AI NOS doing something fishy. AI nos is the feature that auto overclocks. I turn it off due to it being unpredictable at times.

I would also flash the bios with a newest bios. That usually fixes small problems with the bios'es that mobo manufacturers find after they have shipped the board.
 

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Reply #4 - Jul 24th, 2005 at 12:32pm

congo   Offline
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I disabled AInos and all the other auto thingy's the board is capable of before I started tweaking, maybe I missed something.

I loaded the board's bios page at Asus and noticed that most bios updates were beta's which was a bit disconcerting at first, so I went to the support forums.

The forums were filled with users reporting various issues, (In particular, issues relating to "venice" cored cpu's), with the original bios, version 1001 I believe, and identical hardware to mine.

I had absolutely no compatibility issues at all with my venice cpu and the board, (except perhaps this setting I refered to above), which made me wonder what the heck they are on ...... Roll Eyes

Anyway, I decided to chance it and downloaded and installed the latest beta BIOS for my board, which had a few minor changes. I can't now remember which bios I was doing the above tweaking on, so, I'll go try it again and report back.

Thanks for the input.
 

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #5 - Jul 25th, 2005 at 1:45am

the_autopilot   Offline
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Hope this works out for you. Don't mind the beta label as I've never had any trouble with asus beta products, still follow all the usual precautions though like googleing the beta versian to see if other reports problems.

I've heard a lot about venice CPU's and asus mobo's, but my dual core runs fine, so thats all I'm worried about.
 

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Reply #6 - Jul 26th, 2005 at 1:08pm

congo   Offline
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Thanks, I worked it out I think.

If I set my RAM using the 433mhz preset, it sends the CPU back to Auto.

If I overclock the FSB too far beyond what my RAM should handle, The RAM starts back at 166mhz with auto timings, it sets up a divider automatically I guess, strange because I don't see any option to set up a divider manually....... my Soltek nForce2 board used to do a similar thing, but you could set up a divider manually. By divider, I mean a FSB/RAM ratio setting.

I just wanted to see what happens and what the bios can do really.

CPU voltage and temperature:

So far, I ended up with a maximum stable speed of 220mhz on the FSB, (2420mhz CPU speed), at least it ran Prime95 all last night without failing. But this was only possible with a voltage increase to 1.5v from the default 1.4v, otherwise Prime95's torture test failed within minutes.

Temperature was very stable and low at stock CPU speed, but as soon as I got the CPU voltage above 1.45v, the temps started to slowly increase..... and increase more rapidly with each step up in voltage from that point on.

I was measuring the temperature while running Prime95's "large FFT's, max heat/power consumption" torture test, in a bid to simulate the sort of punishment my simulators will put on it.

Temps started to increase exponentially as I reached 1.5volts this point so that's as far as I went. I have no idea at all how far the voltage can be pushed up on these cpu's, or how safe it is.

The temperatures are still quite low compared to what I'm used to seeing on my previous PC's, but it looks as if the temperatures are going to be excessive if I push voltage beyond 1.5v without a third party cooling solution. My cooling is the standard AMD fan that comes boxed with the CPU.

Temeratures:
Ambient room temp....................24*C
CPU Idle @ 2.2ghz/1.4v............ 31*C
CPU Idle @ 2.42ghz/1.5v.......... 34*C
CPU full load @ 2.2mhz/1.4v......42*C
CPU full load @ 2.42mhz/1.5v....47*C

Anyone who reads this and doesn't quite get the picture of what I'm trying to achieve here, please note that I'm basically trying to turn this 3500+ cpu into a 3800+, and it seems to have worked so far.

Judging from the fact that I'm having to increase voltage so early in my attempts to overclock this CPU, I somehow think my overclock options might be limited with it.

Well, it's time for me to start doing a bit of research before going any further methinks.
 

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #7 - Jul 30th, 2005 at 12:18pm

imchief   Offline
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I just built my new machine with an

Asus A8N-E NF4 Ultra
with AMD Athlon 64 3200 939 Venice
and a Leadtek 6600 GT.  
(detailed spec in sig)

I would Appreciate any tips on maximizing the performance.  Keep in mind, However, that I only have stock cooling in an Antec SLK 3700 case with 350W P/S.

Joe
 

The PC Specs- Antec SLK 3700 - Asus A8n-E NF4 Ultra Dual Channel - AMD Athlon 64 3700 939 Sandy E6 Core - Western Digital Cavair SE WD800JD 80GB & 250GB HDD - 2GB GSkill PC3200 - Sparkle P790 512MB 7900GT - Zalman 9500A
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Reply #8 - Jul 31st, 2005 at 12:03am

the_autopilot   Offline
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I'd overclock the video card with coolbits. Its simple and will only take a few min.

If you want to, overclock your CPU, but you'll need better than stock cooling.

 

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Reply #9 - Aug 1st, 2005 at 3:19pm

congo   Offline
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Hi Again, I meant to mention the fun we had flying in CFS2 years ago chief  Wink


Video Card:
Basically, without going to third party software, Leadtek supplies "Winfox2" with the 6600GT you bought. It's a pretty easy to use overclocking util  for that card.

Just bump it up to 550/1100 for the GPU/RAM speeds and see if it handles it. At the first sign of display problems or excessive heat, back it off. Mine operates at 550/1150 without any problems.

CPU:
The CPU's have top-locked multipliers, so you can only speed them up by increasing the Front Side Bus speed.

Again, aim for say a 10% overclock and you may do it without causing any overheat problems.

You should do a bit of research on the subject before attempting an overclock though, and make sure you understand what changes you are making and why. It's not that complex, but CPU, Front Side Bus and RAM speeds have interwined relationships that need to be understood.......................

.......or  you could just fire up the overclock util that asus supplies with the motherboard and crank it up......

Your CPU has a 10x multiplier chief, which is gonna make the math easy.

Your Front Side Bus speed should be 200mhz standard.
10 x 200mhz = 2ghz cpu speed.

If you O/C'd 10%, that would mean the math looks like this:
10 x 220mhz = 2.2ghz cpu speed ......... = 3500+ speed in AMD's arbitrary "P" rating.

The problem is that either the CPU or the RAM may not handle the extra 10% speed without some problems or other adjustments needed. Heat and instability are the most common issues, as you see from what I've written above.

The RAM may get unstable first....... that is unless you have quality or overclocking ram fitted already. Including high spec ram in systems like our's is therefore desirable from the begginning, so money isnt wasted on a second RAM purchase. I see your RAM is 2.5-3-3-7 PC3200, which is good. I'm not familiar with the brand. It may go as high as 220mhz...... you'll probably have to drop the timings to 3-4-4-8 or similar, maybe not.

There is much you can do to get good system performance without overclocking chief, and a thorough understanding of your mobos BIOS is a good place to start. Configuring BIOS correctly can make a lot of difference. I try to disable most auto configuration choices and then I set the PC up manually in BIOS, with a notable exception being resource allocation (IRQ's) which I leave on Auto, mainly because modern mobo's do a good job of this on their own. This way, I'm able to shut down features and resources I'm not using (which is a lot).

I only run programs that I'm using, nothing autoruns, auto updates or auto anythings , I will hack a program to death or delete it before I'll let it autostart. I make a single exception though, and that's my internet firewall which is software, I leave that enabled in startup, lest I forget to start it.
 

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #10 - Aug 10th, 2005 at 7:26am

imchief   Offline
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Thanks Congo and Autopilot.  I will do some research and read more about my mobo bios.  One thing I have noticed is that my cpu temp seems to run around 38-30C under a pretty much idol load( only norton and other default windows programs).  my mobo is about a degree higher that the cpu.

All this is acording to the Cool n Quite software that came with the ASUS board.   Is this runnong a little high or do antec cases run a little hotter.  Is there a better monitoring program.

The case fan blows the air out of the case instead of blowing air in.  Is this O.K.?  That is what the case manual said was the way it installs.  It seems kind of odd to me that it is sucking out.  I'm an electronics tech and all of our gear has fans that blow inward. 

I think my monitor is probaly causing a little more heat on the case than the case would normally have.  I am planning to get a LCD as soon as I get the other pc running so I can sell it.  

I guess I sould move the case away from the monitor and see what happens.  

Also, would blowing air on the case with an ordinary house fan help with cooling?

P.S.  we should fly online again sometime.  I finally got a pc that I could do it with now.  

Keep the thoughts coming.  It is very good info.  I don't get much chance to research.  The Marine Corps keeps me busy.
 

The PC Specs- Antec SLK 3700 - Asus A8n-E NF4 Ultra Dual Channel - AMD Athlon 64 3700 939 Sandy E6 Core - Western Digital Cavair SE WD800JD 80GB & 250GB HDD - 2GB GSkill PC3200 - Sparkle P790 512MB 7900GT - Zalman 9500A
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Reply #11 - Aug 13th, 2005 at 1:40pm

congo   Offline
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The direction of airflow is up to you and your fan placement.

The usual ATX Tower case design attempts to assist the throughflow of fresh cool air by using thermal convection (? if that's the right word).

Air is typically sucked in at the lower front of the case and expelled at top rear. So, Lower case fans should blow in, and upper case fans blow out, this is typified by the PSU fan (top rear) which should be blowing OUT. (if it doesn't, reverse the fan in it's mount.)

It's up to you how you ventilate the case, convective assistance is more efficient is all.

Ambient air temperature makes all the difference in temperature readings, so you can't compare my "winter" temps with your "summer" temps for instance. I think your temps are fine.

The coolest case is an open one, so open it up in the really hot weather. It will run considerably cooler. I can only close my case for a month or two here because the rest of the year is so hot, that my case temps rise sharply if the covers are on.

...
 

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #12 - Aug 13th, 2005 at 6:43pm

the_autopilot   Offline
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Nice pic, lol.

You must live in a very warm place. My cases always stay closed and I never have a problem with tempuratures.

Maybe a case with a side air duct w/fan might solve your temp woes?
 

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Reply #13 - Aug 13th, 2005 at 7:40pm

congo   Offline
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It gets very hot here, even with the air conditioner on in the room, ambient summer temps are very high, like 34*C, and the higher the ambient temp is, cooling solutions really struggle.

I have a side vented case with a draw cone, but it's still not good enough, my pic demonstrates my only successful solution to date.
 

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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