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Question: Whats the best WWII Europian Airplane

North American P-51D Mustang    
  9 (28.1%)
Submarine Spitfire (All sorts)    
  7 (21.9%)
Hawker Typhoon IB    
  2 (6.2%)
Messhershmitt BF-109    
  4 (12.5%)
Focke-Wulf Fw 190D-9     
  1 (3.1%)
Ilyushin IL-2m3 Sturmovik    
  1 (3.1%)
Republic P-47D Thunderbolt    
  8 (25.0%)
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 32
« Last Modified by: Felix/FFDS on: Jul 14th, 2005 at 12:24pm »

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WWII Europe Theater Aircraft (Read 3392 times)
Jul 13th, 2005 at 12:47pm

NavyTopGun   Offline
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Whats ur favorite wwii aircraft
 

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Reply #1 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 2:04pm

Theis   Offline
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in what role do you mean?
as fighter: The FW190
as interceptor: BF 109
as attack aircraft: IL-2
as Bomber: Lancaster

so you need to be more presiscly <sp?>

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Reply #2 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 2:24pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Gloster Gladiator, of course!
 

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Reply #3 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 2:55pm

SilverFox441   Offline
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Lockheed Lightning, of course.

Name the role and a Lightning can do it...no need for those other types at all. Smiley
 

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Reply #4 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 3:31pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Lockheed Lightning, of course.

Name the role and a Lightning can do it...no need for those other types at all. Smiley


Fleet Defense fighter - carrier based.
 

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Reply #5 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 6:13pm

C   Offline
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Gloster Gladiator, of course!


Hurrah! Quite right too!

I notice you've been very general with the Bf109, yet with the Spitfire you've limited us to the Mk XIV.

On balance, the aircraft on the "victorious" side which was in continual production and front line service from 3rd Sept 1939 until the 8th May 1945 was the VS Spitfire...
 
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Reply #6 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 6:40pm

SilverFox441   Offline
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Quote:
Fleet Defense fighter - carrier based.


Lockheed proposed a carrier-based "Model 822" version of the Lightning for the US Navy. The Model 822 would have featured folding wings, an arresting hook, and stronger undercarriage for carrier operations. The Navy wasn't interested, as they regarded the Lightning as too big for carrier operations and didn't like liquid-cooled engines anyway, and the Model 822 never went beyond the paper stage. However, the Navy did operate four land-based F-5Bs in North Africa, with these aircraft inherited from the USAAF and redesignated "FO-1".

It was only USN obstinance that prevented the Lightning from filling this role. Smiley
 

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Reply #7 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 7:00pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Lockheed proposed a carrier-based "Model 822" version of the Lightning for the US Navy. The Model 822 would have featured folding wings, an arresting hook, and stronger undercarriage for carrier operations. The Navy wasn't interested, as they regarded the Lightning as too big for carrier operations and didn't like liquid-cooled engines anyway, and the Model 822 never went beyond the paper stage. However, the Navy did operate four land-based F-5Bs in North Africa, with these aircraft inherited from the USAAF and redesignated "FO-1".

It was only USN obstinance that prevented the Lightning from filling this role. Smiley


Oh, I didn't forget that.  You also did not mention that the redesign would have included cranked booms, to help in landing deck clearance!

At least carrier landings were tested with a hook-equipped P-51 Mustang.  There, it was considered that the necessary "robustness" that would have had to be added to the Mustang would have diminished it's performance "advantage", as well as the necessity of different spares, etc. for the liquid cooled engines ..

In teh end, the first North American carrier fighter (not airplane, since SNJ versions were already carrier-equipped) was to be the FJ-1 Sabre.
 

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Reply #8 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 8:08pm

SilverFox441   Offline
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A carrier Lightning would have alleviated the spares problem....

FO-1 Lightning torpedo bombers, recon fighters, level bombers, fighters, night fighters, dive bombers, scouts...

Of course with logical production (Lightnings only) many Merlins would have been available for Lightnings...making the best even better. Wink
 

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Reply #9 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 8:19pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Next, you'll argue that the DH Vampire/Venom/Vixen was just the P-38 LIghtning concept carried to the (jet) extreme ...

 

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Reply #10 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 9:28pm

SilverFox441   Offline
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Obviously not...

Though Vampire/Venom/Vixen was a copy of the FW P7 Flitzer...which was an attempt to make a better, jet powered version of the Lightning. Smiley
 

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Reply #11 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 11:30pm

NavyTopGun   Offline
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Quote:
I notice you've been very general with the Bf109, yet with the Spitfire you've limited us to the Mk XIV.


it didnt put he F/G on it
 

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Reply #12 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 3:54am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Though Vampire/Venom/Vixen was a copy of the FW P7 Flitzer...which was an attempt to make a better, jet powered version of the Lightning. Smiley

And here was me thinking the Vampire was basically a jet engined Mosquito. I'll admit they look very similar but the Vampire prototype first flew in September 1943. According to this the Fw "Flitzer" project was started at around the same time & approval for a mock-up was not given until February 1944. http://www.luft46.com/fw/fwflitz.html
It's very doubtful that Allied intelligence would have known anything about it until later in 1944 at the earliest.

PS. Quote:
The British Air Ministry was also interested in a simple, lightweight, single-engine jet fighter with an armament of four 20 millimeter cannon, as defined in "Specification E.6/41". A design team at de Havilland, under company chairman Sir Geoffrey de Havilland and featuring Chief Designer R.E. Bishop, came up with the twin-boom "DH.100" design concept based on the "Halford H.1" centrifugal flow engine, a Whittle derivative then being developed by Frank Halford of de Havilland. The Air Ministry liked the idea and placed an order for two prototypes in April 1942, soon increasing the number to three.

Work went slowly for a time, since both de Havilland and the Air Ministry were more focused on other projects, but in November 1942 priority of work on the DH.100 was raised. The project was assigned the codename "Spider Crab". Initial flight of the first prototype was on 20 September 1943, with Geoffrey de Havilland JR, company chief test pilot and son of the founder, at the controls. This machine was powered by a Halford H.1 turbojet with 12.0 kN (1,225 kgp / 2,700 lbf) thrust and was unarmed. The flight was satisfactory, though there were issues, such as oversensitive ailerons and a tendency towards yaw instability. http://www.vectorsite.net/avvamp_1.html#m1
 

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Reply #13 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 6:39am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Hagar - Just don't tell Silver Fox that the Lightning was Lockheed's attempt to make a long range twin engined Spitfire.    I mean, don't those two booms look like cockpit-less Spitfire fuselages?

 

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Reply #14 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 6:56am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Hagar - Just don't tell Silver Fox that the Lightning was Lockheed's attempt to make a long range twin engined Spitfire.    I mean, don't those two booms look like cockpit-less Spitfire fuselages?

LOL Methinks he's just as fanatical about the Lightning as someone else I could mention about his Spitfires. Grin Hi Ozzy. Tongue Cheesy

PS. I still can't figure out why we're restricted to the Spitfire Mk XIV in this poll. ??? It didn't enter servce until 1944. Could this be based on the default aircraft in CFS3?
 

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Reply #15 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 12:25pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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I changed the "Spitfire" description, and if the poll is to be "accurate", we should all consider the "generic" plane, rather than a specific model.

 

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Reply #16 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 2:04pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
I changed the "Spitfire" description, and if the poll is to be "accurate", we should all consider the "generic" plane, rather than a specific model.




Hooray! I agree with Doug too. Sir Geoffrey De Havilland and his team could be as visionary as anyone, and the Vampire (and subsequent aircraft bearing the DH twin booms) was another of his masterstrokes (thinking DH88 Comet, Albatross, Mosquito, DH 106 Comet etc, DH 108 - possibly the first aircraft to go supersonic, albeit with fatal results...)

 
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Reply #17 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 2:48pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Hooray! I agree with Doug too. Sir Geoffrey De Havilland and his team could be as visionary as anyone, and the Vampire (and subsequent aircraft bearing the DH twin booms) was another of his masterstrokes (thinking DH88 Comet, Albatross, Mosquito, DH 106 Comet etc, DH 108 - possibly the first aircraft to go supersonic, albeit with fatal results...)



Do you mean to say that de Havilland created more important aircraft than just the DH.53 Hummingbird and DH.114 Heron?
 

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Reply #18 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 2:53pm

Ivan   Offline
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Where's the La-5, La-7 and Yak-3?
 

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Reply #19 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 2:54pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Hooray! I agree with Doug too. Sir Geoffrey De Havilland and his team could be as visionary as anyone, and the Vampire (and subsequent aircraft bearing the DH twin booms) was another of his masterstrokes (thinking DH88 Comet, Albatross, Mosquito, DH 106 Comet etc, DH 108 - possibly the first aircraft to go supersonic, albeit with fatal results...)

I don't deny that many British post-WWII aircraft owed a lot to German research but these were developed AFTER data & actual examples of the aircraft had been recovered & evaluated. Allied intelligence teams were waiting to go in directly after the invading troops & before anything of importance had been destroyed - or pinched from under their noses by one of the other Allies. The DH.108 Swallow was definitely influenced by the Me 163 Komet. IMHO
 

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Reply #20 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 2:55pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Where's the La-5, La-7 and Yak-3?



<hehe>  FIRST you decide between the 8 planes above, then round 2 is between another 8 planes, and so on....

WHy do you leave out the Yak-9, Pe-2, Li-2?
 

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Reply #21 - Jul 14th, 2005 at 3:10pm

Ivan   Offline
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Yak-3 and Yak-9 are from the same family tree
La-5, La-7 and La-9 are from the same family tree
 

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Reply #22 - Jul 15th, 2005 at 1:52pm

exnihilo   Offline
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Gotta go with Mustang.  War winner; straight from Goering's mouth.
 

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Reply #23 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 7:01am

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Quote:
PS. I still can't figure out why we're restricted to the Spitfire Mk XIV in this poll. ??? It didn't enter servce until 1944. Could this be based on the default aircraft in CFS3?

No, the default CFS3 Spit is a very nasty MkIXc and an even nastier LF MkIXe. I will not even begin to say what's wrong with them and how bad they are Wink
MkXIV Spit turned up in early '44 but was held in ADGB with the Tempest untill September so although it is my favorite Spitfire I would say the MkIX was the best wartime Spitfire.
 

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Reply #24 - Jul 16th, 2005 at 11:35am

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Quote:
War winner; straight from Goering's mouth.


No kidding, don't get me wrong but the P-51 is great and helped win the war alot, but didn't dumb things come out of his mouth?

Personally I voted P-47.
 

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Reply #25 - Jul 21st, 2005 at 10:01am
Jakemaster   Ex Member

 
I heard somewhere on tv that statistically, the best fighter of wwII was the Republic P-47 because it had the most kills with the least deaths,  And it had the least number of losses. 

It is a massive plane.  There is this museum in ny that I go to when Im there that has one on display, and It is a very large aircraft Shocked
 
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Reply #26 - Jul 21st, 2005 at 12:18pm

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Quote:
I heard somewhere on tv that statistically, the best fighter of wwII was the Republic P-47 because it had the most kills with the least deaths,  And it had the least number of losses.  


Statistically speaking P-47s (Thunderbolt MkI & II) had the lowest loss rate of any serving RAF type during WW2, but then the RAF only used them in the far east, apart from an OTU in Egyipt.
We've had this debate before and I always thought that the Hellcat was the highest scoring allied type.

Question: Whats the best WWII Europian Airplane


North American P-51D Mustang     2 (14.2%)
Submarine Spitfire (All sorts)     4 (28.5%)
Hawker Typhoon IB     0 (0%)
Messhershmitt BF-109     2 (14.2%)
Focke-Wulf Fw 190D-9      1 (7.1%)
Ilyushin IL-2m3 Sturmovik     1 (7.1%)
Republic P-47D Thunderbolt     4 (28.5%)
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3     0 (0%)


Total votes: 14



PS, I always thought it was Supermarine Spitfire, not Submarine Spitfire Wink
 

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Reply #27 - Jul 22nd, 2005 at 11:10am

C   Offline
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Quote:
We've had this debate before and I always thought that the Hellcat was the highest scoring allied type.


About 6500 was it not...?
 
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Reply #28 - Jul 22nd, 2005 at 11:50am

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Quote:
About 6500 was it not...?

Something like that.
 

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Reply #29 - Aug 2nd, 2005 at 11:57am

wealthysoup   Offline
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"Submarine Spitfire (All sorts)"

Something tells me that in the poll that is supposed to be Supermarine Spitfire. (unless its a spitfire that goes underwater  Cheesy )
 

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Reply #30 - Aug 7th, 2005 at 12:54am

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i think the LA-7 was the best, low level fighter. it could turn tighter then a zeke. by far above 22.000 ft p 51 was best. attack would be a corsair. AND DOTN FORGET THE YAK 3, miggs worn't that great. i had the honor to talk to a russian pilot.
 
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Reply #31 - Aug 7th, 2005 at 2:39am

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Quote:
"Submarine Spitfire (All sorts)"

Something tells me that in the poll that is supposed to be Supermarine Spitfire. (unless its a spitfire that goes underwater  Cheesy )

Many did -- in the Channel. Unfortunately, it was a one-way trip Cry.
 
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Reply #32 - Aug 7th, 2005 at 4:49pm

NavyTopGun   Offline
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ya they where submarines for a while till the brit's made them faster
 

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Reply #33 - Aug 10th, 2005 at 2:01pm

Theis   Offline
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The Spitfire goes for look, for use, the IL2

Cheers Theis
 

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Reply #34 - Aug 11th, 2005 at 2:11am

Martini   Offline
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I  voted for P-51 [I know it's cliché, everyone loves the Mustang(except for you guys, aparently) but seeing one in real life kind of makes it sentimental(If you're wondering why seeing one in real life is important, keep in mind that I am still a kid. Kind of, I'm 14.)]
 

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Reply #35 - Aug 15th, 2005 at 10:11pm
cheesegrater   Ex Member

 
I voted for Bf109. It was a killing machine.
 
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Reply #36 - Sep 15th, 2005 at 11:40pm

Willit Run   Offline
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To me hands down it was the P-47 Jug.  It could take
more abuse then any fighter out there and still bring
it's pilot back alive.  Nothing against the P-51 it was a
great fighter also but, a single bullet from the ground
into the Allison and or Merlin could put it out of service.
Funniest story I heard about the P-47 is when the first
ones landed in England The pilot jump out the plane
and was walking towards some RAF pilots and one of
them asked the P-47 pilot where the rest of his crew
was.
 

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Reply #37 - Sep 21st, 2005 at 6:02pm

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Hurricane Hurricane Hurricane.

Served in all theatres, shot down more aircraft (bugger the Hellcat) and is by far the best looking and most rugged and most variable by means of armament.

Whats more, we wouldn't have won the war with out it. So I suggest you all change your votes.
 

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