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Corsair Vs. Me-109... (Read 907 times)
Jun 28th, 2005 at 12:44am

Wing Nut   Offline
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Anyone ever hear of this happening, or even going against any German plane?  It would be interesting to find out the results...  Smiley
 

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Reply #1 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 1:18am

H   Offline
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Not exactly, but a MiG or so was shot down in the Korean War by the Corsair. Also, some of the 109's fame was due to its effect during the 1st part of WW2; not only had the plane already been tested (Spanish Civil War) but the pilots were experienced and/or well-trained -- a deadly combination.
 
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Reply #2 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 4:01am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Anyone ever hear of this happening, or even going against any German plane?


No. The Ki-61 'though was planned by a german engineer (hence the inline engine)...and is thus the probably sexies japanese fighter. Grin
...
 
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Reply #3 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 4:06am

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The Fleet Air Arm used Corsairs in at least one raid against the Terpitz, but I do not know if any German aircraft were involved.
 

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Reply #4 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 11:00am

denishc   Offline
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Quote:
The Fleet Air Arm used Corsairs in at least one raid against the Terpitz, but I do not know if any German aircraft were involved.


  Sorry Kevin, but I drew a blank on this one.  One would think that if the Corsair ever came up against any German aircraft it would be in British service. 
 
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Reply #5 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 11:05am

denishc   Offline
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Quote:
No. The Ki-61 'though was planned by a german engineer (hence the inline engine)...and is thus the probably sexies japanese fighter. Grin
[img]


  When the Ki-61 was first encountered in combat it was thought to be a Japanese copy of the Italian Mc-202 and thus was given the Allied code name "Tony".
 
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Reply #6 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 12:38pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Anyone ever hear of this happening, or even going against any German plane?  It would be interesting to find out the results...  Smiley



All the time - I constantly get shot down by ME.109s, FW-190s, .... even <groan> a Stuka or two when I've been flying Corsairs ...
 

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Reply #7 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 2:54pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
 Sorry Kevin, but I drew a blank on this one.  One would think that if the Corsair ever came up against any German aircraft it would be in British service.  


I expect the Corsair did come up against the 109. This would have been in one of two or three places - either one of the UK test establishments (Farnborough/Boscombe Down etc...) or at one of the similar sites in the US. I've certainly heard of other Axis types beig evaluated against other American fighters, so I'd be very surprised if the Corsair didn't come up against a 109...
 
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Reply #8 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 9:06pm
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
Could this be, in any way, simulated to any degree of accuracy in the sim? (I'm willing to bet the 109 would win...cos its definetly better.)

A.
 
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Reply #9 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 9:55pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Could this be, in any way, simulated to any degree of accuracy in the sim? (I'm willing to bet the 109 would win...cos its definetly better.)

A.



As usual, it would boil down to the pilots involved, and how well they knew their opponent's weakness and strengths....

Q.  Who survives in a dogfight between 12 F6F Hellcats and 1 A6M5 Zero?

A.  All of them - the Hellcats run out of bullets, even though the Zero is pretty well shot up ...  when the Hellcats are piloted by green pilots and the Zeke is piloted by Saburo Sakai.

 

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Reply #10 - Jun 28th, 2005 at 11:09pm

denishc   Offline
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Quote:
A.  All of them - the Hellcats run out of bullets, even though the Zero is pretty well shot up ...  when the Hellcats are piloted by green pilots and the Zeke is piloted by Saburo Sakai.


  Actually when Sakai returned form this epic dogfight his crew chief was surprised to fined no bullet holes in Sakai's Zero!  Truly a testament to Sakai's flying ability.
 
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Reply #11 - Jun 29th, 2005 at 8:14am

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Thanks for the correction - it's been years since I've read that passage in "Zero Fighter".

More to the point of the posting!
 

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Reply #12 - Jul 4th, 2005 at 3:38pm

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Quote:
Could this be, in any way, simulated to any degree of accuracy in the sim? (I'm willing to bet the 109 would win...cos its definetly better.)

A.

 

My first flight in a 172 on August 20, 2004&&...&&&&Doing the right thing is more important than doing the thing right. (P. Drucker) &&&&When all think alike, then no one is thinking. (Walter Lippmann)&&&&Boredom's the problem. And how do you beat Boredom? Adventure!!!&&&&Tyler: You-You'll remember my position, won't you?&&&&Rosie: Sure! Stop by for a drink sometime!&&&&Tyler: Wait! Wait! What is my position?&&&&Rosie: Ehhhh...beats the hell outta me! I just hope I can find my way back home!
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Reply #13 - Jul 4th, 2005 at 3:39pm

jordonj   Offline
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Quote:
Could this be, in any way, simulated to any degree of accuracy in the sim? (I'm willing to bet the 109 would win...cos its definetly better.)

A.


Remember what Charles Yeager said:

Quote:
The pilot with more experience will whup your a**, no matter what you are flying
.
 

My first flight in a 172 on August 20, 2004&&...&&&&Doing the right thing is more important than doing the thing right. (P. Drucker) &&&&When all think alike, then no one is thinking. (Walter Lippmann)&&&&Boredom's the problem. And how do you beat Boredom? Adventure!!!&&&&Tyler: You-You'll remember my position, won't you?&&&&Rosie: Sure! Stop by for a drink sometime!&&&&Tyler: Wait! Wait! What is my position?&&&&Rosie: Ehhhh...beats the hell outta me! I just hope I can find my way back home!
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Reply #14 - Jul 6th, 2005 at 1:59am
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
Leave it up to Yeager to say that.... Roll Eyes
Would anyone like to (and I'm being friendly, not agitatory-is that even a word?) duel with me in a Corsair?
It'd be interesting to document the results. Kiss


A.
 
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Reply #15 - Jul 6th, 2005 at 6:01am
Heretic   Ex Member

 
Anyone with a IL-2:FB/PF merge could try that.
 
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Reply #16 - Jul 6th, 2005 at 10:15am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Could this be, in any way, simulated to any degree of accuracy in the sim? (I'm willing to bet the 109 would win...cos its definetly better.)

A.



Andrew - it happens "all the time" in online combat sims like Warbirds and Aces High.

Typical scenario - 190G vs F4U-1D (or C).  The outcome ALWAYS depends on the skill of the pilot(s) involved and the specific dynamics.

Ex.  Who wins a dogfight between a Bf.110 fully loaded with bombs and a La-7?  Situation, 110 and La.7 are heading towards each other, 110 about 3000ft higher. at about 27K

Answer:  Bf.110.  - the La-7 never even realized I was in the area, so I split-essed and popped him at 500 yds (and slightly below) before he knew what was going on.

 

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Reply #17 - Jul 6th, 2005 at 11:27pm
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
ok ok ok , calm down!
Sometimes....*shakes head*


A.
 
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Reply #18 - Jul 7th, 2005 at 9:21am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
ok ok ok , calm down!
Sometimes....*shakes head*


A.



LOL - If you do the *test*, don't let me be the 109 pilot, I'd sorely disappoint you!

<And I won't even tell you about the time I got a Hog (F4U) driver low and slow, and plinked him to death in a Ki.43 (Oscar w/2 mgs)>

 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #19 - Jul 8th, 2005 at 2:27am
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
pinkled? Thats a new word....
Is it just me, or do the Japanese planes seem to be a cut below the rest- and I'm not talking about the Zero...


A.
 
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Reply #20 - Jul 8th, 2005 at 7:21am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Is it just me, or do the Japanese planes seem to be a cut below the rest- and I'm not talking about the Zero...


A.


"plinked" comes from the sound "plink" made when you shoot at tin (or aluminium cans) with smal caliber (bb, pellet, etc) guns.

You bring an interesting point on the Japanese planes.   The design philosophy behind the Japanese fighters was maneouverability and range.  The main Japanese Army fighters, the Ki.27 and Ki.43, were armed with just two machine guns, typically 2x 7.7mm or 1x7.7mm and 1x12.7mm.  Cannon armament, in response to the heavier armored US bombers, was introduced with the Ki.44, Ki.84 later in the war.  By the end of the war, the Army had the Ki.61 (Hien) and Ki.100 and others, but it was too little too late.

A similar philosophy in the Imperial japanese Navy produced the A6M Zero series.  It's main strengths were range and maneouverability - and pilots that could make that plane dance.  As the war progressed, and more armor, guns, etc. was added to the basic design, performance suffered.  Again, teh IJN came out with some excellent planes (Mitsubishi Raiden, for example) but too little, too late.  Towards the middle/end of the war, the design philosophy was becoming " Americanized"  - tough, heavy guns, with speed and armor, but the production logistics were too much in shambles to support the needed level of activity.

I wouldn't say the Japanese planes were "a cut below"  but rather, they were made to a different drum beat.
 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #21 - Jul 8th, 2005 at 11:13am

denishc   Offline
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  Just as a side note, many Japanese pilots criticized the newer aircraft like the Ki-44 and Raiden for their LACK of maneouverability.
 
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Reply #22 - Jul 12th, 2005 at 5:52am

H   Offline
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The same thing happened back in WWI -- even  Manfred vonRichthofen made the complaint. A pilot gets used to the handling of one plane and then has to get used to the charactersitics of a new one.
 
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Reply #23 - Jul 13th, 2005 at 4:37am

H   Offline
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Quote:
...agitatory-is that even a word?...


(Just for the info, no: try "agitative" -- which I'm hoping you won't take this as being Wink)
 
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