Simviation Forum - June 22, 1941 - Operation Barbarossa begins

Jun 22^nd, 2005 at 11:10am

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Operation Barbarossa begins

Just saying -

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Reply #1 - Jun 22^nd, 2005 at 3:37pm

Webb Ex Member
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The Beginning of the End for the Reich.

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Reply #2 - Jun 23^rd, 2005 at 6:35am

Heretic Ex Member

Necessary. If Hitler hadn't attacked, Stalin would have had, which would have meant a total collapse of the Reich way earlier.
Plus, the russian army was weak and unprepared in 1941.

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Reply #3 - Jun 23^rd, 2005 at 11:00am

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Necessary. If Hitler hadn't attacked, Stalin would have had, which would have meant a total collapse of the Reich way earlier.
Plus, the russian army was weak and unprepared in 1941.

Eventually, maybe, but remember, Hitler's attack took Stalin completely by surprise. It took him some time to actually believe the reports of the attacks. remember that Hitler was not the only party to invade Poland.

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Reply #4 - Jun 23^rd, 2005 at 2:27pm

Heretic Ex Member

Sure. The Reich and the SU were the "best friends" from '39 till '41.

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Reply #5 - Jun 26^th, 2005 at 5:51pm

4_Series_Scania Offline
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Pearl Harbour was the real beginning of the end for the Reich, had the Japs not awakened the "sleeping giant" I think I could easily have been born into an entirely different europe, a German one.

Just my £0.02, not backed up by anything resembling fact! Wink

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Reply #6 - Jun 26^th, 2005 at 5:59pm

Heretic Ex Member

Had the dumbarse Hitler not declared war on the USA...

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Reply #7 - Jun 26^th, 2005 at 7:57pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Had the dumbarse Hitler not declared war on the USA...

Honestly, by 1941, I think it was just a matter of time. For all practical purposes, the US and Germany were fighting in the North Atlantic.

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Reply #8 - Jun 27^th, 2005 at 5:26am

Flt.Lt.Andrew Ex Member

I don't think that one could really attribute any event as the start of der untergang, rather it was a chain reaction.

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Reply #9 - Jun 28^th, 2005 at 4:11am

H Offline
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There is some truth in every post. As Felix indicates, the U.S. was already greatly involved. In that respect, Britain didn't totally lose out in resources when it lost 13 of its colonies at the end of the 18th century. Over a century later, long before its own official declarations of war, the resultant country was supplying Britain with not only resources but manufactured equipment.

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Reply #10 - Jul 7^th, 2005 at 9:14pm

Scorpiоn Offline
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The Allies could've won without the US's direct involvement. At least in Europe, anyway. 7.12 only sped up the process.

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Reply #11 - Jul 10^th, 2005 at 2:07pm

Ivan Offline
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and the coldest winter in russia in the last 100 years did help a bit too

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Reply #12 - Jul 10^th, 2005 at 4:36pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Pearl Harbour was the real beginning of the end for the Reich, had the Japs not awakened the "sleeping giant" I think I could easily have been born into an entirely different europe, a German one.

Just my £0.02, not backed up by anything resembling fact! Wink

I'm inclined to agree. Even without Russias involvment Germany would have been defeated as I do not doubt at all that the allies would have held back the bomb for long. Tongue

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Reply #13 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 7:56am

Heretic Ex Member

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Even without Russias involvment Germany would have been defeated as I do not doubt at all that the allies would have held back the bomb for long. Tongue

WTF? If any country contributed to a big degree to the decimation to the german ground forces it was Russia.

And an invasion of Europe would have become nearly impossible.

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Reply #14 - Jul 11^th, 2005 at 9:58am

RichieB16 Offline
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And an invasion of Europe would have become nearly impossible.

It deffinately would have made the war much more difficult, but I think the allies would have prevailed in the end. Bare in mind, the atomic bomb was orginally intended for Europe-not the Pacific and if needed it would have more than likely been used there.

The Russian's played a huge part in the war but Germany simply didn't have the numbers to defeat the allies. Had Russia not been invaded and thus joined the war it may have taken a lot longer but in the end the allies would have won.

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