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Disaster?? (CPU upgrade cont'd) (Read 401 times)
Jun 9th, 2005 at 9:33pm

beaky   Offline
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Well, following congo's very useful tips, I bumped up the CPU clock freq in BIOS to 166 (w/12x multiplier), set DRAM timing to match(by SPD), and on startup, finally saw 266 DRAM, at just shy of 2GHz! Cool!!
Trouble is, FS9 hangs when it opens, and I had to do a hard reset. Hmmm...
Tried reducing the freq to 150, and rebooted. Now, the PC seems to boot, but I get no power-up indication on the USB buss (joystick lights) and the monitor remains dormant. ??? I'm currently typing this post on a laptop...  I have recovery floppies, but I'd like to know if there's another solution... unless I've trashed that mobo. Anybody have any ideas? Don't worry, I take full responsibility  Grin
« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2005 at 4:33pm by beaky »  

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Reply #1 - Jun 10th, 2005 at 10:06am

beaky   Offline
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Revived the system by clearing CMOS, then tried flashing BIOS with mfr's recommended utility... keep getting "this BIOS cannot be updated!" error message... oh well. Opened a ticket with mfr., maybe  it was not the correct file. I give up for now.
I guess I should've known better than to upgrade CPU without also getting a new mobo and upgrading RAM- goes to show that with computers, saving some money now could cost more later...
 

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Reply #2 - Jun 10th, 2005 at 10:26am

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Ok what did you have in it before and after. The hanging sounds like stability issues because of an overclocked CPU. I would have never just bumped it up, unless it was a small bump? Can you try a different USB slot.
 

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Reply #3 - Jun 12th, 2005 at 10:58am

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
Ok what did you have in it before and after. The hanging sounds like stability issues because of an overclocked CPU. I would have never just bumped it up, unless it was a small bump? Can you try a different USB slot.


Cleared CMOS, restored freqs to settings for old Athlon CPU, and now all's well, except I'm not enjoying the benefits of the faster CPU, as the system still "thinks" it's the old 1.2GHz Athlon.
My research shows that without flashing BIOS, what probably happened is that when I raised the CMOS values to accomodate the new CPU, it only half-worked, creating instability. I considered trying again in much smaller increments, but I think as long as the POST page is still showing the old CPU, I need to flash BIOS.
Trouble is, the file I DLd from Epox doesn't do the trick (and sadly, no flash program came with mobo). Got a "this BIOS image cannot be updated!" error message... waiting to hear from mfr. as to whether or not this was the right one...
 

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Reply #4 - Jun 12th, 2005 at 11:17am

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Maybe a "real" upgrade to a physically newer and faster processor would have been more prudent than to just overclock your existing one ?....many can be overclocked, but the risk of damage by overheating with higher voltage and faster clock cycles isn't worth it in my mind..........unless its an experiment only and you are fully expecting to replace the processor anyway.

I am still weighing out the "benefits vs price", of upgrading my Athlon 1800 XP to a Sempron 3000+  .........will cost me about $150, here on Vancouver Island....
 

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Reply #5 - Jun 12th, 2005 at 2:34pm

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That's the point... this IS a new CPU. Newer, faster. Trouble is, the mobo won't recognize it.
 

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Reply #6 - Jun 14th, 2005 at 8:05am

congo   Offline
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Quote:
Cleared CMOS, restored freqs to settings for old Athlon CPU, and now all's well, except I'm not enjoying the benefits of the faster CPU, as the system still "thinks" it's the old 1.2GHz Athlon.
My research shows that without flashing BIOS, what probably happened is that when I raised the CMOS values to accomodate the new CPU, it only half-worked, creating instability. I considered trying again in much smaller increments, but I think as long as the POST page is still showing the old CPU, I need to flash BIOS.
Trouble is, the file I DLd from Epox doesn't do the trick (and sadly, no flash program came with mobo). Got a "this BIOS image cannot be updated!" error message... waiting to hear from mfr. as to whether or not this was the right one...



Sry M8,

I've been out on a boat for nearly a week, (life's a beach!)

But you had it working at the correct frequency !

The motherboard DID recognise the CPU didn't it? I mean, you got the correct speeds running as you stated. Trying to update the bios was not needed yet, and dangerous as well, thankfully you didn't flash the board into oblivion.

The post shows the old cpu because you set the settings back to the old speed! No bios upgrade is gonna change that! If you set the CPU up to run at 2.0ghz again, see if the post ID's it as a SEMPRON 2400+, if it does, then you have BIOS support. (as long as all the other cpu parameters are correct usually).

You can usually tell if the BIOS supports your new cpu by the CPU ID at post, if it says Something like SEMPRON 2400+, it has BIOS CPU support for that cpu. This is known as string information and sometimes all that a BIOS upgrade actually does is provide new string information for newer CPU's, without ANY real upgrade support!

If the CPU is ID'd by a speed rating in ghz instead of the CPU string name, either the mainboard has no BIOS "string" info for that CPU, (no support), or the BIOS settings are not configured correctly (by the cpu defaults).

If the BIOS actually does support the CPU, it will only ID the correct string name if the BIOS is configured correctly for that CPU. If some setting does not match the CPU, even if BIOS support exists, it may not show the string name, or CPU ID correctly. Make sure you exhaust all possibilities before flashing the bios, or go to the mobo's website for info on bios upgrades and what they are for...... (makes a lot of sense! )

FS9 hanging may have been a software configuration problem or possibly another setting you altered in your bios by mistake, causing FS9 to hang through a video configuration problem.

If you can get back to where you were when you had the PC running at it's correct upgraded speed, try using other software to test the video capabilities before changing your system configuration.

Trashing the system config because FS9 hung was a bit premature in my opinion. Also, you set a NON-STANDARD bus speed when you altered it (150mhz) and this might have been causing your booting probs.

FS9 hung and caused the reset. So, did you try it again before you re-configured? FS9 prolly spat the dummy because it wasn't expecting a new CPU, backing up and removing the fd9.cfg file may have solved the prob, forcing fs9 to write a new cfg file with the "new" hardware.

Some of the software you have installed, like fs9, might glitch out for some reason as it was configured with the old hardware settings. I find this a little surprising, but not unlikely. Re-installing FS9 or doing the fs9.cfg removal should have worked. Instead, you went straight to the most dangerous procedure as far as mainboard's are concerned - BIOS flashing!

There are more dead mainboards due to incorrect bios flashing than you could imagine. People who advise bios flashing without warning of the dangers are a bit irresponsible or just ignorant of the facts. Be careful who you listen to, there's a mountain of dead hardware out there! Bios Flashing should be a last resort in most cases, and it should only be done after you have read the manufacturers readme on the bios upgrade and it's benefits, (such as whether or not it will offer new CPU support).

BIOS flashing requires the correct flash utility and bios file...... or IT WILL FAIL!
A power outage or spike during the flash may kill your mainboard as will a procedural error.

BIOS flashing is risky.  Roll Eyes

Ok, now see if you can get back to where you were with the PC running at it's correct upgraded speed and take it from there. Once the PC is running at 2.0ghz, check the CPU string name at bootup. Also Check the hardware monitor in bios or in windows and monitor the CPU temperature until you are satisfied it's cool and stable, then move on.

If you DO need to upgrade your BIOS, research the bios file you intend on using (usually this will be the latest manufacturers bios file and will include a readme or notes on the webpage explaining what the various bios files have included in them).

The latest BIOS files include all previous modifications applied to earlier bios files, or fix problems associated with the previous editions.

Use other 3d programs to test the system, not just FS9.

Good Luck.

Also, consider that a technician or enthusiast would have probly done all this work in about 20 minutes, but then, what fun would that be?   Grin
« Last Edit: Jun 14th, 2005 at 9:15am by congo »  

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #7 - Jun 14th, 2005 at 9:42am

congo   Offline
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Ok, enough hogwash, here's the link to the correct bios that will show the Sempron upgrade:

Bios file is ....    8kra4810.zip

http://www.epox.com.tw/eng/support.php?ps=221&type=1

but it looks like a name string update only........ in other words, it won't do anything other than show the correct CPU name, unless you decide on some serious overclocking, because it also adds additional 400mhz FSB speed compatibility, (for overclocking Semprons?  Grin )

Make sure when you flash that you unzip the 8kra4810.bin file, which is the actual bios, I suspect you may have tried to use the whole 8kra4810.zip file as your upgrade and that's why you failed before.

Here is a link to the Flash utils, one is the standard flash utility that comes bundled with the bios above..... the other... "Magic Flash", is an auto web update flash util... which might be better for you if you are not absolutely sure of the procedure for flashing the bios.

http://www.epox.com.tw/eng/support.php?ps=221&type=6

Remember, flash only if all else fails.
 

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #8 - Jun 14th, 2005 at 8:26pm

beaky   Offline
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Thanks a bunch, congo, but I'm way ahead of you...
Sure the system worked somewhat (idling)  at 2GHz, but ID still showed the old Athlon, and just opening FS9 crashed the system (not just to desktop, either- ouch!).
Went to Epox, got all the utils., but trying the BIOS update gave me a "This BIOS image cannot be updated!" message, and Magic Flash (which they recommended when that first fix failed)won't connect with their server. Tried many, many times; they said they'd check their server.... still no go.
Can I asume this other flash utility you mention is not connection-dependent? If you know the name of the file, that might be worth trying, but your link won't work...
 

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Reply #9 - Jun 14th, 2005 at 10:39pm

congo   Offline
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I'm offering the following as a guide only and you use this info at your own risk RottyDaddy.

Yeah, the auto update site doesn't connect. Anyone else here like EPOX boards?

I click the bios file link and it works. You need to get to the bios update page somehow. I even googled the bios filename and got a link that connects.

eg. ------->  google ----> 8kra4810.zip

Awdflash.exe is the bios update utility. As I said above, it is included in the bios download, but there is no readme file.

I found this readme, maybe it will help. Or preferably read your manual.....

1. Create a DOS-bootable floppy diskette. Copy the new BIOS file (just obtained or downloaded) and the utility program AWDFLASH.EXE to the diskette.
2. Allow the PC system to boot from the DOS diskette.
3. At the DOS prompt, key in AWDFLASH and hit <ENTER>
4. Enter the file name of the new BIOS.
5. The question: “Do you want to save BIOS (Y/N)” is displayed.
Key in “N” if there is no need to save the existing BIOS content..
Key in “Y” if a backup copy of the existing BIOS is needed.
(A file name has to be assigned to the existing BIOS binary file.)
6. The question : “Are you sure to program (Y/N)” is displayed.
Key in “Y”
7. Wait until the flash-update is completed.
8. Power down the PC system.
9. Restart the PC.
-------------------------------------

In practice, it's fairly simple, and this is how I would do it.

1. create a bootable floppy disk from windows by right clicking a:\ drive and finding the option to create a bootable system disk.

2. Copy the Awdflash.exe file and the bios file "8kra4810.bin" to the bootable floppy disk. There won't be a lot of room left on the disk. The .bin file is the bios file.

3. Re-boot from floppy and type this at the prompt: (no quotes! )
a:\> "Awdflash 8kra4810.bin /sn"

the /sn switch tells awdflash not to make a current bios backup file.

Sometimes I rename the flash util and bios file, (in windows prior to booting from floppy), to something like "flash.exe" and "bios.bin" .......... then the command you type would be.............

a:\>"flash bios.bin /sn"  (no quotes)

That's just a method I use, instead of having to write down a long filename which I could possibly screw up!

4. The readme states that Awdflash offers the option of saving the old bios file first, and then it prompts you for a backup filename for it, this step can be omitted by choosing no at the prompt if the switch described above doesn't work for some reason....

5. Follow the onscreen prompts logically and if the flash program asks you for a bios filename, then enter 8kra4810.bin or possibly just 8kra4810, I can't remember exactly, but if it errors, just add or remove the .bin file extension.

6. Continue to follow the onscreen prompts. The bios flash should only take a short time.

I get a warning about how I should not power off my PC until the new bios re-boots. I'm not sure what your mainboard will do.

If you have any doubts, then maybe you should let a PC tech do the bios flash.

Remember, the bios descriptor states that this is a namestring update, so even after the flash, you may still be no better off as far as FS9 crashing the system goes. I tried to explain this in my previous posts above, but I don't seem to be getting the message across. Please read them again carefully and try to understand that the bios may have nothing to do with your problem, (though it could be the answer of course! ).

The CPU stringname may not appear correctly unless all bios settings allow it to be recognised properly. Typically, overclocking/underclocking can cause incorrect or incomplete CPU namestring info.

The lack of correct CPU namestring is not a problem in itself, but usually reflects non standard / non default bios settings or lack of cpu namestring support.

The addition of CPU namestring info in an updated bios file does not add functionality to the bios or PC. Specific CPU compatibility support is independent of namestring info and that is what you seem to be seeking here.

What I'm trying to say is........... Even if you update the bios, you may still have to sort out some other configuration issues that are actually at the root of the problem in your case.

I hope that I'm wrong, and that a simple bios update solves your woes, but be prepared if, after a bios update, you still have to sort this mess out.  

Cheers  Smiley
 

...Mainboard: Asus P5K-Premium, CPU=Intel E6850 @ x8x450fsb 3.6ghz, RAM: 4gb PC8500 Team Dark, Video: NV8800GT, HDD: 2x1Tb Samsung F3 RAID-0 + 1Tb F3, PSU: Antec 550 Basiq, OS: Win7x64, Display: 24" WS LCD
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Reply #10 - Jun 15th, 2005 at 5:03am

beaky   Offline
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Thanx again; I may have a go at that later.
Understood about the FS9 issue... but first things first: I'd like to at least get the new CPU on proper speaking terms with the board, then take it from there.
« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2005 at 4:33pm by beaky »  

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Reply #11 - Jun 15th, 2005 at 5:23pm

beaky   Offline
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And of course, now that I'd like to make a bootable disc, the floppy drive is FUBAR. Awesome. What perfect timing. Use the damn thing maybe twice a year, but now I can't format or even open a disc. Great. Can't find "write enable" settings or anything that might fix it; driver update doesn't help, etc. I'll have to get back to my earlier problam after I replace the floppy...  Undecided
Golly, what a fun hobby this is!!!
 

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Reply #12 - Jun 15th, 2005 at 5:57pm

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Quote:
And of course, now that I'd like to make a bootable disc, the floppy drive is FUBAR. Awesome. What perfect timing. Use the damn thing maybe twice a year, but now I can't format or even open a disc. Great. Can't find "write enable" settings or anything that might fix it; driver update doesn't help, etc. I'll have to get back to my earlier problam after I replace the floppy...  Undecided
Golly, what a fun hobby this is!!!


Bootable floppy?

Heck, I hav'nt built a PC with a floppy drive for about 2 years !

Bootable CD my boy, this is the year 2005.  Wink
 

Posting drivel here since Jan 31st, 2002. - That long!
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Reply #13 - Jun 15th, 2005 at 8:48pm

beaky   Offline
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That's good news, I guess...
Can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work with a CD, but I've always heard of boot-to-DOS stuff being done with a floppy. Starting in 2004, BTW... Grin
I'll look into that; thanks.
 

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Reply #14 - Jul 7th, 2005 at 9:32pm

beaky   Offline
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Well, after putting it off for a while, I'm obsessing again over the fact that I have this new 2.0 CPU going to waste running at 1.2 and holding down the FSB speed, so I've been looking around for a tutorial on creating a DOS CD to run AWDFLASH.exe and flash the BIOS...
There is a wealth of information out there and utilities galore, but I am overwhelmed. Does anyone know of a simple way to do this without a floppy(!!); on an NTFS partition...? Seems the utilities I've found are either made for creating a souped-up  diagnostic disc, or require a DOS partition, or Step 1 is: "first, make a DOS floppy..."
This procedure is something I'm sure I can handle, and I can't help thinking that there's got to be a way to do this without spending an entire day on it... I wish I could find a tute that's specific to this one task I'm trying to do...
Or I guess I can just stop monkeying around and get a new floppy drive.  Grin
 

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