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What happend to the F-19 ? (Read 4272 times)
Jun 7th, 2005 at 7:18am

-sam-   Offline
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Hi there,

I recently found my very old F-19 flight simulator.
I wonder.. what happend to the F-19 ?
Was it ever in service or was it just a concept plane.
I heard something about the f-19 beeing something like a dummy to hide the f-117 project.
Also on the internet there are just some rare pictures
of miniature models available. 
Anyone has more infos about that plane ?

Thanks
 

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Reply #1 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 7:26am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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the  " F-19"  is, according to the USAF's virtual air museum page, apparently the initial designation for the F-117.

It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter. 



 

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Reply #2 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 10:24am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter.  




To make the Russians think it was? Tongue
 

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Reply #3 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 10:25am

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I could imagine that they thought of using it as fighter plane.
The SR71 for example also was planned as interceptor.
The programm was stopped because it was to unflexible

I have an interresting document about the f-117.
It says that when the program was started the USA
had still the old way numbering planes like f-xxx.
That was the time the name f-117 was born.
The numbering system was changed
during the development to f-x btw. than f-xx (f-1, f-16 and so on). After that happend the f-117 should have become the f-19.
The Document asserted that the name f-117
was kept because the f-19 was the next number to come.
And everyone (journalists, conspiracy theoreticians and so on) asked or talked about the f-19. By keeping the name f-117 it was easier for the officials to deny an f-19.
But I donīt know if itīs true Smiley

hehe, I could imagine the F-19 was just a dummy
plane to side track all the people from the real plane.. the f-117. I mean it doesnīt really look stealth with itīs curved wings and parts of the fuselage. And the devolpers
knew from the beginning of the stealth programm (60īs, or 70īs) that curved surfaces are the biggest problem
to build a stealth plane.

Has anyone ever seen a photo of a f-19 ?
Was it really plane that could fly ?
So far all I have seen are photos of minature models...
btw. models for Flightsims.





 

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Reply #4 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 12:43pm

Ivan   Offline
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Quote:
I could imagine that they thought of using it as fighter plane.
The SR71 for example also was planned as interceptor.
The programm was stopped because it was to unflexible

I have an interresting document about the f-117.
It says that when the program was started the USA
had still the old way numbering planes like f-xxx.
That was the time the name f-117 was born.
The numbering system was changed
during the development to f-x btw. than f-xx (f-1, f-16 and so on). After that happend the f-117 should have become the f-19.
The Document asserted that the name f-117
was kept because the f-19 was the next number to come.
And everyone (journalists, conspiracy theoreticians and so on) asked or talked about the f-19. By keeping the name f-117 it was easier for the officials to deny an f-19.
But I donīt know if itīs true Smiley

hehe, I could imagine the F-19 was just a dummy
plane to side track all the people from the real plane.. the f-117. I mean it doesnīt really look stealth with itīs curved wings and parts of the fuselage. And the devolpers
knew from the beginning of the stealth programm (60īs, or 70īs) that curved surfaces are the biggest problem
to build a stealth plane.

Has anyone ever seen a photo of a f-19 ?
Was it really plane that could fly ?
So far all I have seen are photos of minature models...
btw. models for Flightsims.






Curved surfaces were a limitation of the computer model (that was developed by a russian guy...). The B-1B and B-2 have a lot more curves, and are stealth too.

 

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Reply #5 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 12:50pm

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Amerika 'covered' ( if at all : or not) up this plane by saying that they jumped a designation for the F-20, but.. i dont see why it still isnt used..

But honestly i dont realy care what Amerika does..
 
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Reply #6 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 1:12pm

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There was a top secret american stealth fighter that crashed somewhere quite public when under testing and within a few days articles and accurate models were being produced of it all over the world. That plane wasn't the F19 was it?
 

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Reply #7 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 1:39pm

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Nothing the public likes more than a mystery. Attempts at secrecy by the government don't help, in fact they cause more of these cover-up stories. Denying their existence makes it even worse, causing more suspicion & so it goes on. I suspect there's a far more simple explanation for most of these conspiracy theories. I found this interesting article on the subject. http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/f19.html
This explanation for the skipped designations seems most likely to me.

First, why F-117?
Quote:
After years of gossip and rumors, on November 10, 1988, the existence of the Lockheed "stealth fighter" was finally officially revealed by the Defense Department. It turned out to be an attack aircraft rather than a fighter, since it apparently has no air-to-air capability. At the same time, it was also revealed that its designation was F-117. It seems that the F-117 designation has nothing to do with the old fighter sequence which ended at F-111, in spite of rumors that the Soviet fighters under test at Groom Lake conceal their real identity by using call-signs such as F-112, F-113, and so on. During its development and test phase, the Lockheed "stealth fighter" was known strictly under its project name of Senior Trend, and never carried any designation at all, certainly not a designation of F-19. Although the real origin of the F-117 designation is still not known with certainty, it seems to have been derived from the strict security restrictions that were in place at Groom Lake during the flight testing--pilots flying the Senior Trend test aircraft were not allowed to tell anyone what type of aircraft they were flying, and so whenever asked to fill out routine forms that requested identification of the aircraft type they flew they would fill in the meaningless number 117. When the first manual for the Senior Trend aircraft appeared, it had F-117 printed on its cover. Since it would cost too much to have the manual reprinted, the designation later became official.


So why no F-19? Quote:
It is now known that the designation "F-19A" was officially skipped at Northrop's request. Since the F-5G turbofan adaptation of the F-5F was basically a completely new design, the company wanted to have a new designation assigned to it. The next designation in line would be F-19, but Northrop preferred an even number because the Soviet competitors in the export fighter market of the early 1980s all used odd numbers, and Northrop wanted to stand out from these. So the official "confusion with MiG-19"-story isn't all that far from the truth, although it is certainly rather misleading. It is unlikely that anybody would ever confuse an "F-19A" with a MiG-19, especially because the latter was already obsolete. The F-20A designator was approved despite official recommendation by the USAF Standards Branch (at that time responsible for nomenclature assignments) to follow the regulations to the letter and use "F-19A" for the redesignated F-5G. Presumably this change would also make for better advertising copy--"The Northrop F-20: First of a new generation of fighters", for example.


As usual there was a precedent. Quote:
A similar sort of thing happened during World War 2 when the designation P-74 (and perhaps P-73 as well) had been deliberately skipped at the request of the Fisher Body Division of General Motors who wanted their new heavy escort fighter to carry the designation P-75 for advertising reasons.
 

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Reply #8 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 3:36pm

Ivan   Offline
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Quote:
There was a top secret american stealth fighter that crashed somewhere quite public when under testing and within a few days articles and accurate models were being produced of it all over the world. That plane wasn't the F19 was it?

That was Have Blue 1 or 2... Closest thing to the F-117, but with even more sweepback on the wings.
The other one was buried after the tests, but it's said that neither of them was easy to fly even with computer support (thats why the wingsweep was reduced for the production ones)
 

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Reply #9 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 4:49pm

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Literally buried? why? we all know about it now, it should be in a museum.
 

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Reply #10 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 5:03pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
There was a top secret american stealth fighter that crashed somewhere quite public when under testing and within a few days articles and accurate models were being produced of it all over the world. That plane wasn't the F19 was it?


Mmm, accurate models produced from a crashed plane. Last time I saw a crashed military aircraft it would have been difficult to accurately model it unless i got a meccano set and threw all the bits in a pile...
 
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Reply #11 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 6:02pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
Mmm, accurate models produced from a crashed plane. Last time I saw a crashed military aircraft it would have been difficult to accurately model it unless i got a meccano set and threw all the bits in a pile...

Force landed. Wink
 

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Reply #12 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 6:09pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
Force landed. Wink


Would equal a very daft (in fact stupid) pilot, unless of course you wanted the world to see the "secret" aircraft, so people would talk about it, when actually you're developing a hundred other things other than the simple hulk of metal some pilots just landed to throw people off the scent... Grin
 
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Reply #13 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 9:00pm

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It was a controllable meterological balloon, that's it.
 

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Reply #14 - Jun 8th, 2005 at 10:50am

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^^ with aliens inside.  Grin
 

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Reply #15 - Jun 8th, 2005 at 11:48am

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How'd you get out?
 

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Reply #16 - Jun 8th, 2005 at 12:08pm

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I'm not at liberty to discuss it.
 

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Reply #17 - Jun 9th, 2005 at 5:42am

-sam-   Offline
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Ok a short resume.

The F-19 did never exist.. it was just a F-117 prototype wich crashed and was accidentely remodeled as weather balloon due to the limitations of the computer model.
It was captured by Have... err I mean Tacit  Blue 
who crashed it over area 51. Due to the traumatic experience caused by the autopsy heīs now not able to talk about it.  ... amazing

Did I miss something ?

Grin
 

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Reply #18 - Jun 9th, 2005 at 7:07am

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INcredibly accurate!
 

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Reply #19 - Jun 9th, 2005 at 11:05am

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Thanks for dragging up that horrible memory of the autopsy!  Angry Embarrassed
 

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Reply #20 - Jul 1st, 2005 at 1:00pm

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I always was curious about this aircraft too, I think this aircraft is flying in modern war, my guess. We just don't know anything about it, or the f-19 is a test plane with new technology. I think the f-19 is hidden in Area 51 ??? Smiley
 
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Reply #21 - Jul 5th, 2005 at 5:49pm

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Great now the FBI will be investigating us. Cant you people leave these secrets a secret Lips Sealed Grin
 
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Reply #22 - Jul 5th, 2005 at 8:04pm

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Quote:
Cant you people leave these secrets a secret Lips Sealed Grin

Not intill there's a topic in the cafe called "how many forum members does it take to keep a secret?"
 

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Reply #23 - Jul 11th, 2005 at 11:25pm

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the revell plastic model of the "f-19" was based on a design study caltech made for the pentagon in the 70's
at first there was some outcry about a security leak, followed by an investigation.

after the first pictures of the f-117 were published there was some gossip about a desinformation excercise.
 

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Reply #24 - Jul 12th, 2005 at 6:16am

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Revell (I think) must have something on the "-19"  series of airplanes.  If I recall correctly, their "MIg-19" of the early '60s looked more like the WW2 Focke-Wulf/Messerschmitt swept t-tail projects than the actual aircraft...
 

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Reply #25 - Jul 20th, 2005 at 5:40pm

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I've got the ertl diecast F-19 somewhere. It was a pretty cool looking design.
 

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Reply #26 - Aug 17th, 2005 at 12:29am

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Quote:
I always was curious about this aircraft too, I think this aircraft is flying in modern war, my guess. We just don't know anything about it, or the f-19 is a test plane with new technology. I think the f-19 is hidden in Area 51 ??? Smiley
The plane can't be in Area 51 because Area 51 has been abandoned for many years.
 

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Reply #27 - Aug 21st, 2005 at 5:31pm

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Yup, you can go there and jump the fence if you want.. ohh remember your radioactive jacket.. you'll need it.. its still burning radioactive materials..

..suposidly moved to Alaska..
And theres supposed to be a British one in Kent..  Roll Eyes Grin
 
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Reply #28 - Sep 12th, 2005 at 2:11pm

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Quote:
Amerika 'covered' ( if at all : or not) up this plane by saying that they jumped a designation for the F-20, but.. i dont see why it still isnt used..

But honestly i dont realy care what Amerika does..


Andy I have never seen you say anything but negative things about the United States. What is the reason behind you hostility?
 
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Reply #29 - Sep 16th, 2005 at 5:57pm

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Quote:
Andy I have never seen you say anything but negative things about the United States. What is the reason behind you hostility?


Personal Reasons, and my experience of the place  Undecided
 
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Reply #30 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 12:27pm

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Quote:
It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter.  


I think they gave it an "F" designation because they wanted their fighter pilots to fly it, but they refused to fly bombers.
 

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Reply #31 - Nov 5th, 2005 at 5:52pm

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I suppose you should take a closer look at this:

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=183411&page=0&vc=1#Post1...

If you don't have google earth:
IMAGE REMOVED FOR BEING OVERSIZED AND LINKED FROM ANOTHER SITE!

I know the picture ain't too sharp but the first look told me this might be F-19. Correct me if I'm wrong. The site is situated just north of Palmdale, south California and there's plenty more of them: many SR-71, 2 or 3 F-117 and at lest one B-2.
« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2005 at 8:55am by ozzy72 »  
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Reply #32 - Nov 13th, 2005 at 10:19pm

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Isn't that REALLY just a photo of the Epcott center at Disneyworld?   8)
 

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Reply #33 - Nov 16th, 2005 at 10:02pm

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Super secret eh? I doubt that very much if it is sitting there for Google to take a look at....
 

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Reply #34 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 3:49am

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Yeah! But just look at the picture and tell me what do you think about it. What could it be if not f19?
 
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Reply #35 - Nov 17th, 2005 at 6:58pm

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Visible in that image are the U-2 (or a TR-2), A-12, SR-71 and a D-21 Drone.

Info on the D-21: http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/d21~1.htm

If you look closely you can pick out the subtle differences between the SR-71 and the A-12. The A-12 is the one on the bottom.

On of the least talked about roles of the F-117 was AWAC "suppression". Those launch rails in the weapons bay are quite capable of carrying air-air missiles. Ghost in close to an AWACS and take the shot...you're well within lethal "no escape" range of the target prior to detection.
 

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Reply #36 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 3:21pm

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Quote:
the  " F-19"  is, according to the USAF's virtual air museum page, apparently the initial designation for the F-117.

It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter. 





They needed fighter pilots to test it out so they gave it an "F" designation or else they wouldn't fly it. That's what the guy who built it said on the history channel  Grin

But it really is a bomber
 

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Reply #37 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 4:01pm

C   Offline
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I suspect it was more to do with the fact it was produced in the 80s during the cold war, and it would be quite an attractive proposition to maybe make certain states believe you had a supersonic stealth fighter...
 
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Reply #38 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 4:36pm

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Quote:
Visible in that image are the U-2 (or a TR-2), A-12, SR-71 and a D-21 Drone.

Info on the D-21: http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/d21~1.htm



Well looks like the mystery is solved. Thanx, finally I can sleep on both ears once again.
 
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Reply #39 - Mar 19th, 2006 at 4:37am

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I've googled the F-19 a couple of times and came up with similar results to everyone here. What is interesting is the models google images comes up with, looks nothing like the f-117....

http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/TESTORS%20F-19%20MAIN.jpg
 

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Reply #40 - Mar 19th, 2006 at 6:21am

C   Offline
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Quote:
What is interesting is the models google images comes up with, looks nothing like the f-117....


Mostly because they're a figment of the model designers/company artistry sections' imagination...
 
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Reply #41 - Mar 19th, 2006 at 6:35pm

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Wasn't the first F-19 a secret German u-boat that looked like an iceberg, crewed by a cult in 1912?

 

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Reply #42 - Mar 26th, 2006 at 10:15am

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Quote:
Wasn't the first F-19 a secret German u-boat that looked like an iceberg, crewed by a cult in 1912?


You know I think it might have been. Though I believe the cult refered to it as Aurura.
 

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Reply #43 - Mar 26th, 2006 at 10:34am

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Quote:
Wasn't the first F-19 a secret German u-boat that looked like an iceberg, crewed by a cult in 1912?




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