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What happend to the F-19 ? (Read 4272 times)
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 7:18am
-sam-
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Hi there,
I recently found my very old F-19 flight simulator.
I wonder.. what happend to the F-19 ?
Was it ever in service or was it just a concept plane.
I heard something about the f-19 beeing something like a dummy to hide the f-117 project.
Also on the internet there are just some rare pictures
of miniature models available.
Anyone has more infos about that plane ?
Thanks
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Reply #1 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 7:26am
Felix/FFDS
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the " F-19" is, according to the USAF's virtual air museum page, apparently the initial designation for the F-117.
It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter.
Felix/
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Reply #2 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 10:24am
Woodlouse2002
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Quote:
It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter.
To make the Russians think it was?
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Reply #3 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 10:25am
-sam-
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I could imagine that they thought of using it as fighter plane.
The SR71 for example also was planned as interceptor.
The programm was stopped because it was to unflexible
I have an interresting document about the f-117.
It says that when the program was started the USA
had still the old way numbering planes like f-xxx.
That was the time the name f-117 was born.
The numbering system was changed
during the development to f-x btw. than f-xx (f-1, f-16 and so on). After that happend the f-117 should have become the f-19.
The Document asserted that the name f-117
was kept because the f-19 was the next number to come.
And everyone (journalists, conspiracy theoreticians and so on) asked or talked about the f-19. By keeping the name f-117 it was easier for the officials to deny an f-19.
But I donīt know if itīs true
hehe, I could imagine the F-19 was just a dummy
plane to side track all the people from the real plane.. the f-117. I mean it doesnīt really look stealth with itīs curved wings and parts of the fuselage. And the devolpers
knew from the beginning of the stealth programm (60īs, or 70īs) that curved surfaces are the biggest problem
to build a stealth plane.
Has anyone ever seen a photo of a f-19 ?
Was it really plane that could fly ?
So far all I have seen are photos of minature models...
btw. models for Flightsims.
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Reply #4 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 12:43pm
Ivan
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Quote:
I could imagine that they thought of using it as fighter plane.
The SR71 for example also was planned as interceptor.
The programm was stopped because it was to unflexible
I have an interresting document about the f-117.
It says that when the program was started the USA
had still the old way numbering planes like f-xxx.
That was the time the name f-117 was born.
The numbering system was changed
during the development to f-x btw. than f-xx (f-1, f-16 and so on). After that happend the f-117 should have become the f-19.
The Document asserted that the name f-117
was kept because the f-19 was the next number to come.
And everyone (journalists, conspiracy theoreticians and so on) asked or talked about the f-19. By keeping the name f-117 it was easier for the officials to deny an f-19.
But I donīt know if itīs true
hehe, I could imagine the F-19 was just a dummy
plane to side track all the people from the real plane.. the f-117. I mean it doesnīt really look stealth with itīs curved wings and parts of the fuselage. And the devolpers
knew from the beginning of the stealth programm (60īs, or 70īs) that curved surfaces are the biggest problem
to build a stealth plane.
Has anyone ever seen a photo of a f-19 ?
Was it really plane that could fly ?
So far all I have seen are photos of minature models...
btw. models for Flightsims.
Curved surfaces were a limitation of the computer model (that was developed by a russian guy...). The B-1B and B-2 have a lot more curves, and are stealth too.
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
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Reply #5 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 12:50pm
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Amerika 'covered' ( if at all : or not) up this plane by saying that they jumped a designation for the F-20, but.. i dont see why it still isnt used..
But honestly i dont realy care what Amerika does..
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Reply #6 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 1:12pm
Woodlouse2002
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There was a top secret american stealth fighter that crashed somewhere quite public when under testing and within a few days articles and accurate models were being produced of it all over the world. That plane wasn't the F19 was it?
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #7 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 1:39pm
Hagar
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Nothing the public likes more than a mystery. Attempts at secrecy by the government don't help, in fact they cause more of these cover-up stories. Denying their existence makes it even worse, causing more suspicion & so it goes on. I suspect there's a far more simple explanation for most of these conspiracy theories. I found this interesting article on the subject.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/f19.html
This explanation for the skipped designations seems most likely to me.
First, why F-117?
Quote:
After years of gossip and rumors, on November 10, 1988, the existence of the Lockheed "stealth fighter" was finally officially revealed by the Defense Department. It turned out to be an attack aircraft rather than a fighter, since it apparently has no air-to-air capability. At the same time, it was also revealed that its designation was F-117. It seems that the F-117 designation has nothing to do with the old fighter sequence which ended at F-111, in spite of rumors that the Soviet fighters under test at Groom Lake conceal their real identity by using call-signs such as F-112, F-113, and so on. During its development and test phase, the Lockheed "stealth fighter" was known strictly under its project name of Senior Trend, and never carried any designation at all, certainly not a designation of F-19. Although the real origin of the F-117 designation is still not known with certainty, it seems to have been derived from the strict security restrictions that were in place at Groom Lake during the flight testing--pilots flying the Senior Trend test aircraft were not allowed to tell anyone what type of aircraft they were flying, and so whenever asked to fill out routine forms that requested identification of the aircraft type they flew they would fill in the meaningless number 117. When the first manual for the Senior Trend aircraft appeared, it had F-117 printed on its cover. Since it would cost too much to have the manual reprinted, the designation later became official.
So why no F-19?
Quote:
It is now known that the designation "F-19A" was officially skipped at Northrop's request. Since the F-5G turbofan adaptation of the F-5F was basically a completely new design, the company wanted to have a new designation assigned to it. The next designation in line would be F-19, but Northrop preferred an even number because the Soviet competitors in the export fighter market of the early 1980s all used odd numbers, and Northrop wanted to stand out from these. So the official "confusion with MiG-19"-story isn't all that far from the truth, although it is certainly rather misleading. It is unlikely that anybody would ever confuse an "F-19A" with a MiG-19, especially because the latter was already obsolete. The F-20A designator was approved despite official recommendation by the USAF Standards Branch (at that time responsible for nomenclature assignments) to follow the regulations to the letter and use "F-19A" for the redesignated F-5G. Presumably this change would also make for better advertising copy--"The Northrop F-20: First of a new generation of fighters", for example.
As usual there was a precedent.
Quote:
A similar sort of thing happened during World War 2 when the designation P-74 (and perhaps P-73 as well) had been deliberately skipped at the request of the Fisher Body Division of General Motors who wanted their new heavy escort fighter to carry the designation P-75 for advertising reasons.
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Reply #8 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 3:36pm
Ivan
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Quote:
There was a top secret american stealth fighter that crashed somewhere quite public when under testing and within a few days articles and accurate models were being produced of it all over the world. That plane wasn't the F19 was it?
That was Have Blue 1 or 2... Closest thing to the F-117, but with even more sweepback on the wings.
The other one was buried after the tests, but it's said that neither of them was easy to fly even with computer support (thats why the wingsweep was reduced for the production ones)
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found
here
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Reply #9 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 4:49pm
TacitBlue
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Literally buried? why? we all know about it now, it should be in a museum.
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Reply #10 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 5:03pm
C
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Quote:
There was a top secret american stealth fighter that crashed somewhere quite public when under testing and within a few days articles and accurate models were being produced of it all over the world. That plane wasn't the F19 was it?
Mmm, accurate models produced from a crashed plane. Last time I saw a crashed military aircraft it would have been difficult to accurately model it unless i got a meccano set and threw all the bits in a pile...
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Reply #11 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 6:02pm
Woodlouse2002
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Mmm, accurate models produced from a crashed plane. Last time I saw a crashed military aircraft it would have been difficult to accurately model it unless i got a meccano set and threw all the bits in a pile...
Force landed.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #12 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 6:09pm
C
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Quote:
Force landed.
Would equal a very daft (in fact stupid) pilot, unless of course you wanted the world to see the "secret" aircraft, so people would talk about it, when actually you're developing a hundred other things other than the simple hulk of metal some pilots just landed to throw people off the scent...
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Reply #13 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 9:00pm
Felix/FFDS
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It was a controllable meterological balloon, that's it.
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Reply #14 -
Jun 8
th
, 2005 at 10:50am
TacitBlue
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^^ with aliens inside.
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Reply #15 -
Jun 8
th
, 2005 at 11:48am
Felix/FFDS
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How'd you get out?
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Reply #16 -
Jun 8
th
, 2005 at 12:08pm
TacitBlue
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I'm not at liberty to discuss it.
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Reply #17 -
Jun 9
th
, 2005 at 5:42am
-sam-
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Ok a short resume.
The F-19 did never exist.. it was just a F-117 prototype wich crashed and was accidentely remodeled as weather balloon due to the limitations of the computer model.
It was captured by Have... err I mean Tacit Blue
who crashed it over area 51. Due to the traumatic experience caused by the autopsy heīs now not able to talk about it. ... amazing
Did I miss something ?
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Reply #18 -
Jun 9
th
, 2005 at 7:07am
Felix/FFDS
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INcredibly accurate!
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Reply #19 -
Jun 9
th
, 2005 at 11:05am
TacitBlue
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Thanks for dragging up that horrible memory of the autopsy!
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Reply #20 -
Jul 1
st
, 2005 at 1:00pm
citationX
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I always was curious about this aircraft too, I think this aircraft is flying in modern war, my guess. We just don't know anything about it, or the f-19 is a test plane with new technology. I think the f-19 is hidden in Area 51 ???
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Reply #21 -
Jul 5
th
, 2005 at 5:49pm
Craig.
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Great now the FBI will be investigating us. Cant you people leave these secrets a secret
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Reply #22 -
Jul 5
th
, 2005 at 8:04pm
Woodlouse2002
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Quote:
Cant you people leave these secrets a secret
Not intill there's a topic in the cafe called "how many forum members does it take to keep a secret?"
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #23 -
Jul 11
th
, 2005 at 11:25pm
myshelf
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the revell plastic model of the "f-19" was based on a design study caltech made for the pentagon in the 70's
at first there was some outcry about a security leak, followed by an investigation.
after the first pictures of the f-117 were published there was some gossip about a desinformation excercise.
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Reply #24 -
Jul 12
th
, 2005 at 6:16am
Felix/FFDS
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Revell (I think) must have something on the "-19" series of airplanes. If I recall correctly, their "MIg-19" of the early '60s looked more like the WW2 Focke-Wulf/Messerschmitt swept t-tail projects than the actual aircraft...
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Reply #25 -
Jul 20
th
, 2005 at 5:40pm
Drake
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I've got the ertl diecast F-19 somewhere. It was a pretty cool looking design.
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Aug 17
th
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Martini
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Quote:
I always was curious about this aircraft too, I think this aircraft is flying in modern war, my guess. We just don't know anything about it, or the f-19 is a test plane with new technology. I think the f-19 is hidden in Area 51 ???
The plane can't be in Area 51 because Area 51 has been abandoned for many years.
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Reply #27 -
Aug 21
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, 2005 at 5:31pm
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Yup, you can go there and jump the fence if you want.. ohh remember your radioactive jacket.. you'll need it.. its still burning radioactive materials..
..suposidly moved to Alaska..
And theres supposed to be a British one in Kent..
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Reply #28 -
Sep 12
th
, 2005 at 2:11pm
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Quote:
Amerika 'covered' ( if at all : or not) up this plane by saying that they jumped a designation for the F-20, but.. i dont see why it still isnt used..
But honestly i dont realy care what Amerika does..
Andy I have never seen you say anything but negative things about the United States. What is the reason behind you hostility?
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Sep 16
th
, 2005 at 5:57pm
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Andy I have never seen you say anything but negative things about the United States. What is the reason behind you hostility?
Personal Reasons, and my experience of the place
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Oct 1
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Quote:
It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter.
I think they gave it an "F" designation because they wanted their fighter pilots to fly it, but they refused to fly bombers.
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Reply #31 -
Nov 5
th
, 2005 at 5:52pm
HAL9000
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I suppose you should take a closer look at this:
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=183411&page=0&vc=1#Post1...
If you don't have google earth:
IMAGE REMOVED FOR BEING OVERSIZED AND LINKED FROM ANOTHER SITE!
I know the picture ain't too sharp but the first look told me this might be F-19. Correct me if I'm wrong. The site is situated just north of Palmdale, south California and there's plenty more of them: many SR-71, 2 or 3 F-117 and at lest one B-2.
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Reply #32 -
Nov 13
th
, 2005 at 10:19pm
congo
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Isn't that REALLY just a photo of the Epcott center at Disneyworld? 8)
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Reply #33 -
Nov 16
th
, 2005 at 10:02pm
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Super secret eh? I doubt that very much if it is sitting there for Google to take a look at....
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Reply #34 -
Nov 17
th
, 2005 at 3:49am
HAL9000
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Yeah! But just look at the picture and tell me what do you think about it. What could it be if not f19?
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Reply #35 -
Nov 17
th
, 2005 at 6:58pm
SilverFox441
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Visible in that image are the U-2 (or a TR-2), A-12, SR-71 and a D-21 Drone.
Info on the D-21:
http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/d21~1.htm
If you look closely you can pick out the subtle differences between the SR-71 and the A-12. The A-12 is the one on the bottom.
On of the least talked about roles of the F-117 was AWAC "suppression". Those launch rails in the weapons bay are quite capable of carrying air-air missiles. Ghost in close to an AWACS and take the shot...you're well within lethal "no escape" range of the target prior to detection.
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Reply #36 -
Dec 4
th
, 2005 at 3:21pm
cloud9
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Quote:
the " F-19" is, according to the USAF's virtual air museum page, apparently the initial designation for the F-117.
It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter.
They needed fighter pilots to test it out so they gave it an "F" designation or else they wouldn't fly it. That's what the guy who built it said on the history channel
But it really is a bomber
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Reply #37 -
Dec 4
th
, 2005 at 4:01pm
C
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I suspect it was more to do with the fact it was produced in the 80s during the cold war, and it would be quite an attractive proposition to maybe make certain states believe you had a supersonic stealth fighter...
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Reply #38 -
Dec 4
th
, 2005 at 4:36pm
HAL9000
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Quote:
Visible in that image are the U-2 (or a TR-2), A-12, SR-71 and a D-21 Drone.
Info on the D-21:
http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/d21~1.htm
Well looks like the mystery is solved. Thanx, finally I can sleep on both ears once again.
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Reply #39 -
Mar 19
th
, 2006 at 4:37am
Wingo
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I've googled the F-19 a couple of times and came up with similar results to everyone here. What is interesting is the models google images comes up with, looks nothing like the f-117....
http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/TESTORS%20F-19%20MAIN.jpg
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Reply #40 -
Mar 19
th
, 2006 at 6:21am
C
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Quote:
What is interesting is the models google images comes up with, looks nothing like the f-117....
Mostly because they're a figment of the model designers/company artistry sections' imagination...
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Reply #41 -
Mar 19
th
, 2006 at 6:35pm
Felix/FFDS
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Wasn't the first F-19 a secret German u-boat that looked like an iceberg, crewed by a cult in 1912?
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Reply #42 -
Mar 26
th
, 2006 at 10:15am
Woodlouse2002
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Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England
Gender:
Posts: 12574
Quote:
Wasn't the first F-19 a secret German u-boat that looked like an iceberg, crewed by a cult in 1912?
You know I think it might have been. Though I believe the cult refered to it as Aurura.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #43 -
Mar 26
th
, 2006 at 10:34am
C
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Earth
Posts: 13144
Quote:
Wasn't the first F-19 a secret German u-boat that looked like an iceberg, crewed by a cult in 1912?
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