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What happend to the F-19 ? (Read 4268 times)
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 7:18am
-sam-
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EDDM
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Hi there,
I recently found my very old F-19 flight simulator.
I wonder.. what happend to the F-19 ?
Was it ever in service or was it just a concept plane.
I heard something about the f-19 beeing something like a dummy to hide the f-117 project.
Also on the internet there are just some rare pictures
of miniature models available.
Anyone has more infos about that plane ?
Thanks
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Reply #1 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 7:26am
Felix/FFDS
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the " F-19" is, according to the USAF's virtual air museum page, apparently the initial designation for the F-117.
It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter.
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #2 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 10:24am
Woodlouse2002
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I like jam.
Cornwall, England
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Quote:
It's curious, though, why the "Stealth Fighter" ever got an "F" designation, since it isn't a fighter.
To make the Russians think it was?
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #3 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 10:25am
-sam-
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I could imagine that they thought of using it as fighter plane.
The SR71 for example also was planned as interceptor.
The programm was stopped because it was to unflexible
I have an interresting document about the f-117.
It says that when the program was started the USA
had still the old way numbering planes like f-xxx.
That was the time the name f-117 was born.
The numbering system was changed
during the development to f-x btw. than f-xx (f-1, f-16 and so on). After that happend the f-117 should have become the f-19.
The Document asserted that the name f-117
was kept because the f-19 was the next number to come.
And everyone (journalists, conspiracy theoreticians and so on) asked or talked about the f-19. By keeping the name f-117 it was easier for the officials to deny an f-19.
But I donīt know if itīs true
hehe, I could imagine the F-19 was just a dummy
plane to side track all the people from the real plane.. the f-117. I mean it doesnīt really look stealth with itīs curved wings and parts of the fuselage. And the devolpers
knew from the beginning of the stealth programm (60īs, or 70īs) that curved surfaces are the biggest problem
to build a stealth plane.
Has anyone ever seen a photo of a f-19 ?
Was it really plane that could fly ?
So far all I have seen are photos of minature models...
btw. models for Flightsims.
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Reply #4 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 12:43pm
Ivan
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Colonel
No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands
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Posts: 6058
Quote:
I could imagine that they thought of using it as fighter plane.
The SR71 for example also was planned as interceptor.
The programm was stopped because it was to unflexible
I have an interresting document about the f-117.
It says that when the program was started the USA
had still the old way numbering planes like f-xxx.
That was the time the name f-117 was born.
The numbering system was changed
during the development to f-x btw. than f-xx (f-1, f-16 and so on). After that happend the f-117 should have become the f-19.
The Document asserted that the name f-117
was kept because the f-19 was the next number to come.
And everyone (journalists, conspiracy theoreticians and so on) asked or talked about the f-19. By keeping the name f-117 it was easier for the officials to deny an f-19.
But I donīt know if itīs true
hehe, I could imagine the F-19 was just a dummy
plane to side track all the people from the real plane.. the f-117. I mean it doesnīt really look stealth with itīs curved wings and parts of the fuselage. And the devolpers
knew from the beginning of the stealth programm (60īs, or 70īs) that curved surfaces are the biggest problem
to build a stealth plane.
Has anyone ever seen a photo of a f-19 ?
Was it really plane that could fly ?
So far all I have seen are photos of minature models...
btw. models for Flightsims.
Curved surfaces were a limitation of the computer model (that was developed by a russian guy...). The B-1B and B-2 have a lot more curves, and are stealth too.
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found
here
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Reply #5 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 12:50pm
|| Andy ||
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Shropshire, United Kingdom
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Amerika 'covered' ( if at all : or not) up this plane by saying that they jumped a designation for the F-20, but.. i dont see why it still isnt used..
But honestly i dont realy care what Amerika does..
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Reply #6 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 1:12pm
Woodlouse2002
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I like jam.
Cornwall, England
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Posts: 12574
There was a top secret american stealth fighter that crashed somewhere quite public when under testing and within a few days articles and accurate models were being produced of it all over the world. That plane wasn't the F19 was it?
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #7 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 1:39pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Nothing the public likes more than a mystery. Attempts at secrecy by the government don't help, in fact they cause more of these cover-up stories. Denying their existence makes it even worse, causing more suspicion & so it goes on. I suspect there's a far more simple explanation for most of these conspiracy theories. I found this interesting article on the subject.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/f19.html
This explanation for the skipped designations seems most likely to me.
First, why F-117?
Quote:
After years of gossip and rumors, on November 10, 1988, the existence of the Lockheed "stealth fighter" was finally officially revealed by the Defense Department. It turned out to be an attack aircraft rather than a fighter, since it apparently has no air-to-air capability. At the same time, it was also revealed that its designation was F-117. It seems that the F-117 designation has nothing to do with the old fighter sequence which ended at F-111, in spite of rumors that the Soviet fighters under test at Groom Lake conceal their real identity by using call-signs such as F-112, F-113, and so on. During its development and test phase, the Lockheed "stealth fighter" was known strictly under its project name of Senior Trend, and never carried any designation at all, certainly not a designation of F-19. Although the real origin of the F-117 designation is still not known with certainty, it seems to have been derived from the strict security restrictions that were in place at Groom Lake during the flight testing--pilots flying the Senior Trend test aircraft were not allowed to tell anyone what type of aircraft they were flying, and so whenever asked to fill out routine forms that requested identification of the aircraft type they flew they would fill in the meaningless number 117. When the first manual for the Senior Trend aircraft appeared, it had F-117 printed on its cover. Since it would cost too much to have the manual reprinted, the designation later became official.
So why no F-19?
Quote:
It is now known that the designation "F-19A" was officially skipped at Northrop's request. Since the F-5G turbofan adaptation of the F-5F was basically a completely new design, the company wanted to have a new designation assigned to it. The next designation in line would be F-19, but Northrop preferred an even number because the Soviet competitors in the export fighter market of the early 1980s all used odd numbers, and Northrop wanted to stand out from these. So the official "confusion with MiG-19"-story isn't all that far from the truth, although it is certainly rather misleading. It is unlikely that anybody would ever confuse an "F-19A" with a MiG-19, especially because the latter was already obsolete. The F-20A designator was approved despite official recommendation by the USAF Standards Branch (at that time responsible for nomenclature assignments) to follow the regulations to the letter and use "F-19A" for the redesignated F-5G. Presumably this change would also make for better advertising copy--"The Northrop F-20: First of a new generation of fighters", for example.
As usual there was a precedent.
Quote:
A similar sort of thing happened during World War 2 when the designation P-74 (and perhaps P-73 as well) had been deliberately skipped at the request of the Fisher Body Division of General Motors who wanted their new heavy escort fighter to carry the designation P-75 for advertising reasons.
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Reply #8 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 3:36pm
Ivan
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Colonel
No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands
Gender:
Posts: 6058
Quote:
There was a top secret american stealth fighter that crashed somewhere quite public when under testing and within a few days articles and accurate models were being produced of it all over the world. That plane wasn't the F19 was it?
That was Have Blue 1 or 2... Closest thing to the F-117, but with even more sweepback on the wings.
The other one was buried after the tests, but it's said that neither of them was easy to fly even with computer support (thats why the wingsweep was reduced for the production ones)
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found
here
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Reply #9 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 4:49pm
TacitBlue
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Colonel
That's right, I have my
own logo.
Saint Joseph, Missouri, USA
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Literally buried? why? we all know about it now, it should be in a museum.
A&P Mechanic, Rankin Aircraft 78Y
Aircraft are naturally beautiful because form follows function. -TB
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Reply #10 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 5:03pm
C
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Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Quote:
There was a top secret american stealth fighter that crashed somewhere quite public when under testing and within a few days articles and accurate models were being produced of it all over the world. That plane wasn't the F19 was it?
Mmm, accurate models produced from a crashed plane. Last time I saw a crashed military aircraft it would have been difficult to accurately model it unless i got a meccano set and threw all the bits in a pile...
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Reply #11 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 6:02pm
Woodlouse2002
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Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England
Gender:
Posts: 12574
Quote:
Mmm, accurate models produced from a crashed plane. Last time I saw a crashed military aircraft it would have been difficult to accurately model it unless i got a meccano set and threw all the bits in a pile...
Force landed.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #12 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 6:09pm
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Quote:
Force landed.
Would equal a very daft (in fact stupid) pilot, unless of course you wanted the world to see the "secret" aircraft, so people would talk about it, when actually you're developing a hundred other things other than the simple hulk of metal some pilots just landed to throw people off the scent...
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Reply #13 -
Jun 7
th
, 2005 at 9:00pm
Felix/FFDS
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FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL
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Posts: 1000000627
It was a controllable meterological balloon, that's it.
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #14 -
Jun 8
th
, 2005 at 10:50am
TacitBlue
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That's right, I have my
own logo.
Saint Joseph, Missouri, USA
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Posts: 5391
^^ with aliens inside.
A&P Mechanic, Rankin Aircraft 78Y
Aircraft are naturally beautiful because form follows function. -TB
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