Hi there,

After years of virtual flying I decided to take my first
realworld flying lesson. I found an airfield/Flyingschool
near my home that offer (I don´t know the proper english
word) one hour test/practise lessons.
Now I have some questions.

1. I can choose between a Cessna 152 (140 eur /h)and a 172 (170 eur /h). Wich one would you choose for your first lesson and  why ? Is it worth to pay 30eur more for the 172 ? (I don´t have a 152 for fs)
It´s quite expensive so I want to get out of this
lesson as much as possible.

2. What can I expect from such a lesson ? Is it like
taking car lessons.. where the instructor places you
on the driver seat and tells you what to do ?
Or is more like.. looking the instructor over the shoulder.
Probabely also depends on the instructor.. but
I´d be interested to hear from your first lesson.

3. What do Flying lessons costs in your part of the world ?
Is a price around 150eur expensive ?
And what does a PPL cost ? Here in Germany I heard it´s
around 6500eur. The cheapest possibility I found
is around 3500eur (but a little special).

Thank You !!

If your first lesson is anything like mine, which was only a few weeks ago, then the instructor will probably take off, let you do part of the climb-out. Then once above the clouds and wind, let you do a few turns, climbs and descents. My lessons cost $60US per hour/73.8 Euro - gas, instructor, rental all included. But I understand that this is a rarity, and probably the cheapest in my state.But my instructor is an old retired guy whose plane and private airport are payed off, so he can afford it. I would also suggest the 172, because they are very comon, and if you ever want to rent an airplane in the future, chances are it will be a 172. Oh, and be prepared to continue paying, because once you take that first lesson, you won't want to stop 

Hi there,

I would say that 170 EUR / hour is quite expensive for a C172 (here its costing me 190 dollars Canadian before landing fees out of an International Airport, which is a bit less in euros),  and I would probably go with the 152 instead.  Of course, if you can afford it, the C172 would otherwise be my choice.  Ive never tried the 152 myself, just the 172, and i must say its a pretty good aircraft. 

From your first lesson, you can probably expect an easy going tutorial.  Your instructor will let you sit on the pilot seat, and maybe let you taxi.  The instructor will take control, probably do the takeoff and climb to a safe altitude where he/she will allow you to do some turns and stuff.  With comparison to car lessons, flight lessons are a bit different, as you normally get a demo, and then the practical.  Flight lessons can be a bit overwhelming at first too (not the first flight, but probably starting from your second and third), whereas in a car, you basicaly practice all day doing turns and staying in the lane. 

Flying lessons in my part of the world again costs about $190 Canadian (little bit more expensive then most other flying clubs here as well).  For each lesson (usually a little over an hour), it costs me between 200-250 each time i go up.  The whole PPL cost depends on the student.  Can be anywhere from 40 hours to like 100 hours or something like that (i dont really know the stats).  I think it also depends on where you fly and what you fly.  As I don't live in the UK, and our currency is a little different, 140 eur/h is still pretty expensive for my pocket

Anyways, i hope you have fun.

As Rocket and Rotty have just found out, flying (or anything involving oil based products) on this side of the pond tend to be a lot more expensive. Thats partly the why so many Brits have gone over to Florida to do PPLs etc. Unfortunately we're now all branded with the same iron as the terrorists of 9/11 and have an administrative night mare to deal with in the TSA, which adds several hundred pounds (Visas/paperwork) and a trip to the USA before training starts (for fingerprinting)...

Thank You very much for your comments !
I think I will take the 152 for my first and save
some money for my second lesson .
oh I´m allready so thrilled  I can´t wait to get my hands on
a real plane.

@rottydaddy:
Regarding that Logbook. Is this something special or just
any blnak book where my instructor can confirm
that I took a lesson ?

Thanks

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FS is not quite the same at all, and not just because there is no "feel" there  (the "seat of your pants" is a valuable instrument in RL flying), but I agree with those who say it helps. There are some things that are the same, like sequencing tasks (checklist) and the timing of events, and it helps give you an idea of how things should look in the pattern and on final.
FS is also a great tool for learning navigation and communications procedures, although RL conversations with ATC are quite different in RL.
  So in short: it helps, but it is NOT a substitute for RL training.

In answer to your second question:
The total cost of getting a PPL in the USA varies according to many different factors. Mine took about twice as long and cost about 1/3 more than the average, because of scheduling, high CFI turnover, lack of money, etc. I wound up taking about 2 yrs. and  $7000 to get my PPL.
  But as I said, that's not the average, which is more like one year and $4000.
  Some ways to save $$ on this:
-Find a school at a non-towered field, not too close to a big city. There will be less delays (you pay for every minute that engine is running), no landing fees, and probably slightly lower aircraft rental rates and fuel prices.
-Pay a big lump of money up front. Most schools offer a discount if you fork over about 10% of the estimated total cost up front.
-Try to fly as many consecutive days in a row as you can, esp. when starting out. It's easy to lose your edge if you only fly once a week or once every two weeks,... your CFI will have you reviewing a lot, which eats up more money.
-Join a flying club. Some have heavy initiation fees, but not all. And the rates for rental and instruction will be much lower in general... a major savings despite monthly dues. I wish I'd gone this route when I got my PPL...

- You could of course go the college-degree route, esp. if you'd like to fly commercially some day. With financial aid from gov't loans, grants, etc. you could get a lot of training in a short period.

Here to get our radio licence, all it really needs is for you to know the phonetic alphabet, know how to mayday and pan pan, and thats about it.  The rest is handled by the instructor 

I can't really say how long and how much the whole PPL cost for myself. I was well over 80 hours logged before taking the checkride. Probably was ready at 50 or so, but was in no hurry, as I wasn't going to take anybody up with me until I had 100 hours anyway.

By the time I was actually licensed, I had logged over 30 hours of cross-country, pilot-in-command and was 3/4 of the way through finishing the requirements for an instrument rating (which I did not finish for years (just last October to be exact)).

So.... the best cost/time/analysis I can come up with is for getting IFR rated. Adjusting for inflation.. plan on 120 hours minimum.. and $13,000 US.

Doug, its not that difficult to get the paperwork sorted with a little common sense, its more inconvenient than anything. i think now though you also need to have a criminal background check something you didnt up untill recently. However you have always had to have a student visa as its considered schooling. you couldn't just jump on a plane with a return ticket for 6 weeks later and take up your flying on arrival though.

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Unfortunately Craig, enough people had thing to say about the process that someone wrote an article for last months "Pilot" magazine. Unfortunately, the system doesn't run as smoothly as advertised, it took him several months to get a Visa and permission to undertake flying training from the TSA, and added several hundred pounds in the process. He was forced to travel to the US to have his fingerprints taken at an TSA approved Sheriff's office, which cost him a one off trip to the States (Florida) just for that purpose...

On the plus side, its creating positions for FAA qualified Instructors/Examiners on this side of the pond.

Its had a direct effect on me, as I was considering travelling to the States for a week in the Summer to complete my PPL whilst Mrs C gets a tan. Hey ho, no chance of that happening now, although I wonder if my job may lift some of the restrictions?

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You could always try South Africa instead. I would think with your qualifications it would be a formality anyway. I'm surprised it doesn't come with your wings.

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Na. I think i'll do it home! New scenery to discover, and the number of hours I need to do (none, technically, just 2 x-countries and the flying exams) its probably not worth the hassle with my current workload...

Thanks for the info Craig...

Also Doug, sadly the flying syllabus I've done up to now hasn't included any solo landaway nav routes, part and parcel of the PPL

not quite you have to do a conversion course when you get back. Some schools in the states offer the european PPL though.

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Here's a quote from my previous link. Quote:

It used to be a very popular way of doing it.

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basically the same as mine. I got to "help" with the landing, call to the tower and hands on for it but it was more my instructor doing the work.

wow that's small...just as cramped as the DA20's we have on my school.   
Seems to be more roll stable than the diamonds tho.
Hope you enjoy your flying adventures!

had my lesson this saturday (EDMJ / D-EDMP) ! It was fantastic.
I had a very nice and patient trainer, who was a former Dornier Engineer.
After we went through the checklist he placed me on the pilot seat (I didn´t expect a cockpit beeing that small).
He showed me how to taxi, wich was more difficult than expected. He told me.. "it´s very easy.. just imagine driving a tank"..
I went down the taxiway like beeing comletely drunk. On the runway he took over the pedals and let me do the start. I was so fixed on the instruments that i needed some seconds to realize that we were in the air. We climbed to 4500ft where I made some turns to get a feeling for the plane.
He than told me a little bit about VFR navigation and asked me I should try to find the place where I live. Not that easy to recognize even well known things
from above. After correcting me sometimes I finally found
it and we made some turns over my house. We than went on with trimming.. wich I never understood in flightsim
(cause my joystick stays in every position anyway).
On our way back to the airport we flew over the old Dornier Test Field (EDMO). My instructor got sad and he told me about the good old times when he was
building planes down there.
He than took over, lined me up with the runnway and told me to do the landing. That was the last thing I expected, and I was a little scared. He told me exactly what to do
and corrected my sometimes a little.
(He had his hands on all the time)
But I really have to say.. it was easier than expected .
I now know that my
flightsim landings where quite wrong (I should have taken some lessons with rod). I recreated the flight in flightsim
when i was at home, and realized that also in flightsim
landings are now much easier when following the same steps like in a real plane.

Overall it was a fantasic day.
After my lesson I had the chance to watch an "Extra"
doing some loops near the field.
I probabely don´t have the money to make a PPL the next time.. But for shure
I will take some further lessons from time to time.

Finally.. the big question.. how is it comparable with flight sim. well.. after just one lesson I can not say to much...
but the resolution is much better.. and also the framerate
is fantastic .. no seriously I think flightsim helps
a lot. You allready know all the instruments. And you have at least a clue how a flight should look like. But it isn´t really comparable because you are simply not flying wich makes 99% of the experience.

I´m still trying to get the smile out of my face...

sam

Sounds like you had a blast. The first thing I noticed about real flying is that it's actually easier than flight sim, to me anyway.