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Miles Gemini (Read 604 times)
Reply #15 - May 31st, 2005 at 7:04pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Mmm. I might look into that one. I've never really considered the relationship between the Cirrus and Gypsy. I'm wondering if the Gypsy line was developed as a higher performance successor to the Cirrus line, as the 6 cylinder Gypsy Queen powered aircraft such as the DH86 Dragon Rapide and the DH88 Comet, and of course the Gypsy line powered (relatively) high performance aircraft such as the Tiger Moth and the Chipmunk,whilst the Cirrus continued to power the majority of DH powered GA aircraft of the day...

I'm not an engine man but I've worked on both & knew there was a relationship.* The Cirrus & Gipsy engines were designed by the same man, Frank B Halford. http://100.rolls-royce.com/people/view.jsp?id=118
He originally worked as a freelance engine design consultant to various companies including DH until 1944 when he was put in charge of the new DH Engine Company. He also designed the Napier Sabre & was responsible for the DH range of jet engines. Quite a man.

Quote:
You're making me jealous old friend!  

Lots of wonderful/beautiful shots!  

Not intentionally Jared my old friend. Glad I posted these now. Wink

*PS. Found what I was looking for. The original Cirrus was half an Airdisco V8 & used some identical parts for economy. There were plenty of surplus spares available at the time. http://www.compare-tigermothflights.co.uk/html/tigermoth_history_00.html Quote:
Engine problems had plagued his (Geoffrey de Havilland) work throughout the war (WWI). Engines were never available when promised and couldn't be relied on to work when they were eventually delivered. One of the few good ones had been the Airdisco in his D.H. 5 l's, a V-8 developed from a French Renault engine by de Havilland's friend Frank Halford. Halford was now following the uncertain profession of free-lance engine designer, so de Havilland stripped down an Airdisco and invited Halford to look at it. Could he make a four-cylinder engine of 60-hp out of one bank of the Airdisco's eight cylinders? The idea must have seemed somewhat harebrained to Halford, whose mind was in any case busy on a new engine for Aston Martin cars, but he reluctantly agreed to try. They would use Airdisco (Renault) pistons, cylinders, and valves in a new crankcase, with automotive carburetors and magnetos to keep costs down. It was a wispy, tenuous kind of beginning, so they called the new engine the Cirrus. With a suitable engine on its way, on the design of D.H. 60.

When the spares dried up he designed the Gipsy as a replacement.
 

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Reply #16 - May 31st, 2005 at 7:37pm

beaky   Offline
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Wow. I'm no Miles expert, but I know that's a rare one. Kinda like spotting a coelacanth or something. Good to see her flying!! Grin
 

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Reply #17 - May 31st, 2005 at 7:57pm

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I can only find 3 airworthy examples on the UK register. G-AKHP, G-AKKB & G-AKKH. I know there's another one in Belgium* but as most Miles airframes are all-wood construction they deteriorate with age, especially in humid climates & when stored outside. The main problem is not the wood itself but failure of the old-fashioned glues used in their construction. The plywood covering also tends to delaminate.

*PS. http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=203408
 

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Reply #18 - May 31st, 2005 at 10:42pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
Wonderful Doug...very nice Wink

I wonder, did the main gear retract part way on the aircraft and was she a bit underpowered?

Thanks for posting it.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
 
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Reply #19 - Jun 1st, 2005 at 12:41am

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Quote:
Similar but not the same. The Gemini 1A has 2x 100 hp (Blackburn) Cirrus Minors & the Chippie has the DH Gipsy Major (later production versions were fitted with the 145 hp Gipsy Major 10 Mk 2). I believe both the Cirrus & Gypsy 4-cylinder inverted engines were derived from the same original design. The single-engined Miles Messenger is fitted with the 150 hp Cirrus Major which is very similar to the Gipsy Major.


According to the engine section of "British Light Aeroplanes" the Cirrus line (neé Aircraft Disposal Company Ltd -> Cirrus Aero engines -> Cirrus Hermes -> Blackburn ) was started before the DH Gipsy line.  DH apparently went to Czechoslovakia, and the resulting Gipsy bore a resemblance to the Walter inverted 4cyl.

Howver, given the state of aero-engineering at the time, I think that it was natural that the inverted 4 cyl engines all appeared similar.


 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #20 - Jun 1st, 2005 at 1:15am

ozzy72   Offline
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Beautiful Doug, a pity there aren't more Miles aircraft in FS....
 

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Reply #21 - Jun 1st, 2005 at 3:48am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
According to the engine section of "British Light Aeroplanes" the Cirrus line (neé Aircraft Disposal Company Ltd -> Cirrus Aero engines -> Cirrus Hermes -> Blackburn ) was started before the DH Gipsy line.  DH apparently went to Czechoslovakia, and the resulting Gipsy bore a resemblance to the Walter inverted 4cyl.

That agrees with what I posted above. Both engines were designed by Frank B Halford who worked as a consultant to various companies including the Aircraft Disposal Company (ADC or AirDisCo) & DH. It's a fascinating story. The Cirrus line originated from Halford's 120 hp Airdisco V8 engine fitted to the DH.51, regarded as the ancestor of the DH Moth. http://www.shuttleworth.org/html/shuttleworth/air17.htm
The Airdisco engine had in turn been developed from the Renault V8 fitted to the Maurice Farman MF.11 Shorthorn. Renault aero engines had also been manufactured by the RAF (Royal Aircraft Factory). As ADC was involved with war surplus aircraft & aero engines I imagine it used as many original Renault parts as possible. The first Cirrus engine was basically half the Airdisco V8 with a new crankcase & crankshaft on the suggestion of Geoffrey de Havilland. When spares inevitably started to dry up, DH asked his old friend Halford to design a brand new replacement which became the first DH Gipsy engine. It's quite possible it was influenced by other similar types.

Quote:
Wonderful Doug...very nice  

I wonder, did the main gear retract part way on the aircraft and was she a bit underpowered?

Thanks Doug. Yes the main gear retracts rearwards into the enlarged engine nacelles. It's electrically retracted by a Miles designed actuator.  Although not completely covered I think the wheels retract completely & not partially as on the DC-3. You can see this from the design of the trailing 'knuckle' suspension Felix mentioned earlier. (The earlier single-engined Messenger had fixed gear.)

I've not heard the Gemini was underpowered but I don't know about the single engined performance. I can vouch for the fact that the original production 1a can comfortably carry 4 hefty great blokes. The Mk 3a had 145 hp Gipsy Majors but only 6 were built. The protoype was converted into the only Mk 2 with the Continental C-125-2 & there was also a more powerful version named the Aries fitted with Cirrus Major III 155 hp engines. I think only a couple of these were built & I sadly witnessed one being written off while taking off from the flooded runway at Shoreham during the winter, probably 1961/62. Everyone aboard got out without a scratch but a well-known test pilot was instantly dismissed over the incident.

PS. History of the Aircraft Disposal Company at Croydon. http://www.aviationbooksbygms.com/Bookmnth.html
 

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Reply #22 - Jun 1st, 2005 at 10:47am

Rifleman   Offline
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Once again you've proven that being retired has its benefits Doug......... Wink

I'm glad that the adhesive you use to afix your camera to your hand is stronger than mine......I know I've missed some shots but you always seem to come home with the gold !.........very nice indeed  8)
 

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