Simviation Forum - Was WWII Worth it?

May 12^th, 2005 at 8:23am

dakota-flyer Offline
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I've never read anything quite like this article. I'd love to here some other opinions on it.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44210

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Reply #1 - May 12^th, 2005 at 9:18am

C Offline
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What an idiot. Does he think Germany invading Poland was the only reason we went war. Does he think that if we'd let Hitler have Poland and sat back, he wouldn't have then gone on to expand his Reich to include Begium, Holland and France.

Sorry mate (Patrick J Buchanan or whatever your name is). Those Germans must have been damn good to devise invasion plans for Holland, Belgium and France, considering (according to him) they had no intention of ever invading them, until after war was declared on the 3rd Sept 39, considering they'd overrun France my mid 1940.

Sounds like a journo with a political agenda and something against the WWII leaders. I was half expecting the article was going to conclude by saying Churchill and Roosevelt were Communists!

Complete and utter tosh... Angry

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Reply #2 - May 12^th, 2005 at 9:31am

Foxhound-B Ex Member

Another broadside against other political systems.
Believe me, as long as you kept your mouth shut, communism and all of its forms weren't that bad. Roll Eyes

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Reply #3 - May 12^th, 2005 at 11:09am

TacitBlue Offline
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The thing about communism is that it works in theory and not in practice. And of course WWII was worth it, If the allies hadnt stopped Hitler when they did, he would have had that much more power when they finally had to fight him. I honestly dont think he would have stopped at Europe.

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Reply #4 - May 12^th, 2005 at 11:26am

ozzy72 Offline
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In human terms WWII wasn't worth it, no war ever is. However in terms of technical advances and beatiful planes... Grin

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Reply #5 - May 12^th, 2005 at 12:42pm

SilverFox441 Offline
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Interesting take on the situation...

Looked at objectively, the War in Europe, based on stated historical objectives...was an abject failure.

Nazi Germany would, of course, have had pre-existing war plans for most of the surrounding nations. This is a normal situation. One cannot take their future success as indicative of pre-existing intent.

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Reply #6 - May 12^th, 2005 at 2:06pm

Hype Ex Member

Quote:

Believe me, as long as you kept your mouth shut, communism and all of its forms weren't that bad.

This is precisely the problem with non-democratic forms of leadership (communism, dictatorship, et al).

You shouldn't HAVE to keep your mouth shut. The foundation of democracy is that you're born with certain rights that can't be taken away by anyone. Those include the right to speak your mind.

Anyone who honestly believes that silencing the masses is better than letting them speak (and live) freely has never experienced all that freedom has to offer.

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Reply #7 - May 12^th, 2005 at 2:27pm

ozzy72 Offline
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I have to say living in a former Eastern Bloc country that my opinion has been revised a lot. When I was in uniform the Iron Curtain was there, I was based in W.Germany.
Hearing stories from friends and family I have to say that not everything from Communism was bad, most of it was but there were some v.good things as well, and people forget that. Björn has raised some excellent points on these forums about certain aspects of the Soviet era, and I think only a long hard historical view once all the main protagonists have passed will give us a truely unbiased view of things.
Oh and of course Communism gave us the Trabbie, one of the coolest cars in existance 8)

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Reply #8 - May 12^th, 2005 at 2:52pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Quote:

This is precisely the problem with non-democratic forms of leadership (communism, dictatorship, et al).

You shouldn't HAVE to keep your mouth shut. The foundation of democracy is that you're born with certain rights that can't be taken away by anyone. Those include the right to speak your mind.

Anyone who honestly believes that silencing the masses is better than letting them speak (and live) freely has never experienced all that freedom has to offer.

Sometimes it's wises to keep your mouth shut even if you do have freedom of speech. Even in a democracy you're still bound by certain standards that mean you cannot say or do entirely as you please.

And for the upside of Communism, everyone had a job, everyone had an education and everyone had healthcare. And if I can get that simply for not making a nusiance of myself, then it sounds a pretty good deal. Tongue

Now that article is not asking whether World War II was worth it. It's an outright attack on Stalin, the USSR and Communism.

Of course Russia took lands that wern't theirs after WWII, but you've got to remember that most of it was part of Russia in the preceeding centuries before the Revolution and also you cannot tell a country that has lost nearly 40 million people to help you win a war that their help was appreciated but they can go home now.

Mr Buchanen should go and read some history books before writing things like that. Tongue

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Reply #9 - May 12^th, 2005 at 2:57pm

Foxhound-B Ex Member

Quote:

Oh and of course Communism gave us the Trabbie, one of the coolest cars in existance 8)

...also you didn't have to care about the safety of your working place; about daytime child care; about free time activities and about voting.

You can never experience true freedom, even in a democracy. Too many laws and moral rules around.

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Reply #10 - May 12^th, 2005 at 3:09pm

Hype Ex Member

Some might say communist regimes have more regulations.

As for moral restrictions, they're MORAL restrictions. If you're incapable of complying with THOSE, you're going to have a REALLY hard time complying with any society.

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Reply #11 - May 12^th, 2005 at 3:27pm

Hagar Offline
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It's worth remembering that Stalin was as bad as Hitler if not worse. Also, the non-aggression pact between the Soviet Union and the Third Reich that was signed on August 23, 1939, before Britain & France declared war on Germany. Whatever happened Poland was doomed. Quote:

In a secret appendix to the pact, the border states Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania were divided in spheres of interest of the parties, that within a year would injure their sovereignty.

The non-aggression treaty lasted until Operation Barbarossa of June 22, 1941, when Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union. I'm sure this had always been Hitler's intention & the pact gave him breathing space. He regarded Soviet Russia & Communism as the true threat in Europe.

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Reply #12 - May 12^th, 2005 at 3:30pm

Foxhound-B Ex Member

It's not the moral rules themselves that I have problems with. It's the point "democracy = freedom" that bugs me, since this is hence not 100% true.
Or as my ethics teacher says: "Democracy is the least bad form of government."
No reason to make it the ultimate, perfect form of government 'though.

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Reply #13 - May 12^th, 2005 at 3:32pm

Foxhound-B Ex Member

Quote:

He regarded Soviet Russia & Communism as the true threat in Europe.

As did Churchill - too late 'though.

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Reply #14 - May 12^th, 2005 at 3:52pm

Hype Ex Member

No form of government will ever be perfect, because it will be under human control. We're not programmed for perfection.

But to me, that's not reason enough to say that an oppressive form of government is better than one in which the people have their freedoms.

Sure, people had jobs under communist rule. But how happy were they? They weren't allowed to speak their mind about the government. They weren't allowed to stand up and say "Ya know what? This sucks."

Is a democracy 100% free? No. But it's a lot better than 100% oppression.

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