Im gonna have to word this one carefully.... What are everyones opinions on the fairness of the sentences given the the head Nazis in Nuremburg after the end of the war? (Please, let this be a civilized discussion) Personally, I believe that the man who was shafted the most was Karl Doenitz (who really, did the exact same thing as every other allied naval commander in the war).  Rudolf Hess as well, he even left Germany before the attrocities that followed, yet he still got a life sentence, only dying in Spandau prison by the later 1980s. Granted, he still had a part in the formation of the Nazi party but was in no way in volved with the final solution. Finally, Albert Speer. Im split on his sentence. He certainly deserved some sort of prison time, but what I dont know. What I would like to hear is everyones opinion on the matter (and again, please dont let this degenerate into nazilover namecalling, I'd like this to be a civilized discussion about history)

I think Woody summed it up nicely. I'm not sure what good discussing it now will do. It's over & done with & quite likely some of the worst were never caught. Some could still be alive now but this becomes more unlikely with every year that passes.

There's no doubt in my mind that Hess was a committed Nazi & remained so until his death. He might not have been directly involved in the "Final Solution" but Hitler's attitude towards the Jews & other "inferior" races was apparently quite clear in Mein Kampf. (I've never read it & don't intend to.) The reasons for his (Hess) flight to Britain have never been disclosed but I'm quite sure it wasn't anything to do with remorse. After the event Hitler denied all knowledge of it but it's more than likely that he not only knew all about it but it was with his full approval.

Speer was a very complex character & the only one of the accused to express remorse & take responsibility for his actions. He was despised for this in certain quarters for the rest of his life & lost most of his friends & supporters by doing so. He fully expected to be hanged with the rest of them & would have done so had he admitted knowing about the death camps. It seems impossible to believe that he did not know.

I'm quite sure that had the positions been reversed the same would have happened to the Allied war leaders.

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I think that old chestnut is very unlikely. Albert Speer spent his last few years in Spandau alone with Hess & he would certainly have known if he was an imposter. According to Speer they spent a lot of time together & could be regarded as close friends. Although Speer felt a certain amount of sympathy for him he never liked the man & would have avoided him in different circumstances.

If you're interested in further reading this comes highly recommended. Albert Speer: His Battle with Truth
It gives an insight into the whole subject although even over several years of close cooperation the author never got through to Albert Speer the man. She came to the conclusion that there were some things he couldn't admit or explain, even to himself. It's quite a tome & not an easy read. It took me a while to get through but I feel it was well worth the effort.

I think there are some that definetly got what they deserved, but there are some who shouldnt have got it and some who should have got it but didnt.
I don't think Hess should have been jailed, as he didnt play a big enough role in the execution of the Nazi plans.
Yes, Hess had his views but isnt that a democratic right?
I was angry to dicover that Goering cheated the hangmans noose...
Doenitz didnt deserve it...
their finanical officers should have been dealt with more lightly...
Although there was some "justice" meted out at Nuremburg, I can hardly call the trials "unbiased"or "fair."
Its a messy issue and I think that many people had clouded judgements.

A.

Just a footnote, Albert Speer wrote an extremely interesting book after Inside the third Riech called Spandau: the Secret diaries. It is comprised of thousands of smuggled out journal entries he made during his imprisonment. It really is a fascinating look at how Speer and his fellow prisoners coped with the difficulties of beng imprisoned, once I started reading it, I just couldnt put it down.

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All this is covered in the book I mentioned. The author was given access to the original work & not the edited versions that were later published under Speer's name. (Some things were left out on the publisher's advice & other changes were made by Speer himself.) These include copies of a remarkable 1,200 page draft (the author's words) that Speer wrote in Spandau between Jan 1953 & Jan 1954. I think it's probably the nearest to the truth that anyone will ever get. Apparently Speer wrote those diaries in weekly installments (there are 400 of them) to his daughter Hilde who Gitta Sereny says is the most moral person she ever met. All this was written on scraps of paper & smuggled out of Spandau over many years. This was then compiled into some sort of sense by his loyal friend Rudolf Wolters. Speer's "black" archive, his own private archive of secret correspondence with his family alone consists of "Thousands of pages of transcripts typed from tens of thousands of flimsy pages & hundreds of thousands if not millions of words in close, hard to decipher writing." Although he often referred to his secret archive during meetings with the author, nobody but Speer was allowed access to it. It has been decided by the family that this archive will remain closed until the third generation of Speer children are grown.

I think the Nuremberg trial was as fair as it could be. Many people, including Winston Churchill, would have preferred them not to have taken place at all. As for leniency, that's all very well if the accused show some remorse for their actions. Albert Speer was the only one of the Nazi hierarchy to not only show remorse but also offer to take full responsibilty for it on behalf of the German nation. Whatever else you might think of him I believe this took great courage & was a very honourable thing to do.

You make a true point there Woody.

A.

I read all I could find about Rudolf Hess some years ago as I discovered he was held for some time at Wiston House, a country mansion not far from where I went to school. There were several references to him in a detailed biography of Albert Speer I've just finished reading. Speer spent 20 years in Spandau with Hess & although he never liked him was apparently one of the few who showed any friendship towards him. Hess remained a committed Nazi until his death which was after Speer had been released. There have been rumours that he was murdered but this is often the case when someone commits suicide in prison. The same has recently been claimed for mass-murderer Dr Harold Shipman but I don't know if there's any truth in it.

From what I can make out, Hess decided to fly to Scotland to meet an important person (some say the Duke of Hamilton) that he believed was sympathetic to the Nazi cause. He apparently hoped to be put in touch with others who thought the same way with the idea of some sort of truce which would allow an attack on Soviet Russia without interference from Britain or the US. It's been said that he discussed this with Hitler & that he knew all about it although he might have tried to dissuade him. It's almost impossible to believe he didn't know. Quite naturally he denied this when it all went wrong & even denounced his former loyal friend & deputy. (You only have to read any spy novel to know that this is not ususual with any undercover operation. "If you're caught, you're on your own.") Winston Churchill saw his being in Britain as an embarrassment & didn't know what to do with him. Instead of publicising it as you might expect, the fact that he'd been captured at all was not generally known. It's possible there was an assassination attempt but I've not heard anything about it. After being captured Hess never divulged his intentions to anyone, even his closest friends & family, so the real truth will never be known.

There's plenty of articles on this subject all over the Web. You have to read a selection & make up your own mind as many are biased one way or the other & there's the usual conspiracy theories.

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http://www.answers.com/topic/rudolf-hess

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I've told you most of what I can remember. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think anyone will ever know the truth now. Hess took his secrets to the grave & the only other person likely to know would have been Hitler himslf & possibly the person he was was due to meet in Scotland, if Hess actually arranged this in advance. Whoever it might have been they would certainly have denied it. One thing about Hitler, he rewarded his old friends & supporters by giving them important posts in his regime. One reason might have been that he felt he could trust them, although being completely ruthless he wouldn't hesitate to drop them if it suited him. Some of these old friends, like Hess, remained loyal to him until the end. I can believe that he never told anyone of his plans even under interrogation. It might be difficult to imagine now but in those days many people on all sides resisted all kinds of torture & would die before betraying their country or their friends.