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"Fold up bomber"??? (Read 816 times)
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 8:38am
dakota-flyer
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I research team just found an old Japanese sub wrecked off the island of Hawaii.
The submarines (type I-401's) were designed to carry three "fold-up" bombers that could be assembled for flight within minutes.
Any idea what kind of planes they might have been???
As an aside...
An I-400 and I-401 were captured at sea a week after the Japanese surrendered in 1945. Their mission — which was never completed — reportedly was to use the aircraft to drop rats and insects infected with bubonic plague, cholera, typhus and other diseases on U.S. cities.
If you sit down at a poker game and don't see a sucker, stand up...you're the sucker...
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Reply #1 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 8:58am
Hagar
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Quote:
As an aside...
An I-400 and I-401 were captured at sea a week after the Japanese surrendered in 1945. Their mission - which was never completed - reportedly was to use the aircraft to drop rats and insects infected with bubonic plague, cholera, typhus and other diseases on U.S. cities.
You don't quote your source so I can't say if there's any truth in that. Anything is possible in total war but it sounds unlikely to me. This might answer your question on the aircraft. According the artist the I400 class boats were designed to attack the Panama Canal.
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Monstrous vessels (with a submerged displacement in the order of 6000tons, a crew of, apparently 180-odd men, and...well, .....that hangar could take a London or New York subway train...!) they were true submersible aircraft carriers, each being equipped with three Aichi M61A "Seiran" floatplane attack bombers.
In this painting I have chosen to illustrate the "final act" of the Japanese submarine service in World War Two - truly, the war is over - it is late August 1945 and Japan has surrendered; in a very short time that Japanese Naval Ensign will be lowered and replaced with a simple black flag, signifying surrender to the U.S. Navy.
But before this took place, the crews of I400, I401 and I402 carried out one small, bloodless gesture of defiance. They catapulted their aircraft into the sea.
Here, on the deck of I401, we can see a Seiran being prepared for launching, whilst sailors armed with sledgehammers are busy knocking holes into the floats of the aircraft before pitching them over the side.
http://www.subart.net/final_act.htm
This was not a new idea & various types of aircraft had beeen carried on submarines before. They were usually housed in special hangars when not in use.
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Reply #2 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 9:01am
Felix/FFDS
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Aichi M6A Seiran - one still exists and is being restored for static exhibition..
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/resources/tech/aircraft/seiran.html
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Reply #3 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 9:14am
dakota-flyer
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Thanks, I'll have to look for an FS9 version. And just to let folks know, there's more info in the article on foxnews.com (top of the page).
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Reply #4 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 9:31am
Hagar
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Thanks, I'll have to look for an FS9 version. And just to let folks know, there's more info in the article on foxnews.com (top of the page).
Don't believe everything you hear or read in the media. I treat all news reports as suspect & class Fox News in the same category as the British Sun "newspaper" with regard to accuracy. They usually manage to get the date right.
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Reply #5 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 9:49am
dakota-flyer
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The same article is on cnn.com. Neither refers to a source, regarding the rats and diseases.
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Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 10:15am
Hagar
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The same article is on cnn.com. Neither refers to a source, regarding the rats and diseases.
Not wishing to labour the point but both articles that Felix & I quoted state that the objective was to attack the Panama Canal, specifically the lock gates. I don't think that bugs or diseases would be much use against this type of target. I read somewhere that 100s of workers died from yellow fever, malaria, typhoid fever, smallpox, and other tropical diseases while they were building it so it would hardly be necessary to introduce these diseases.
Quote:
Designed to attack the Panama Canal (an act which would have given the allies a few problems!), the I400 class boats of the Imperial Japanese Navy were the largest submarines of WWII - and never saw combat ! Of this class, only two or three appear to have survived until the end of the war. I404 was destroyed in a bombing raid, and I405 was never completed.
Quote:
Plans were formulated to bomb the Panama Canal's lock gates and Navy Anchorage at Ulithi.
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Reply #7 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 11:13am
Craig.
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=10&u=/ap/20050321...
Thats reported by the AP. who mention something about rats and insects being dropped in cities by the bombers.
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Reply #8 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 2:55pm
beaky
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Reminds me of stories I heard about an Allied (!) plan to release bats with incendiary packs over cities during WWII. The idea was that they'd roost in old belfries and whatnot, and a timer would set off the pack... can't remember where I heard that, but it could have been a real plan at one time.
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Reply #9 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 2:56pm
Felix/FFDS
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Quote:
Reminds me of stories I heard about an Allied (!) plan to release bats with incendiary packs over cities during WWII. The idea was that they'd roost in old belfries and whatnot, and a timer would set off the pack... can't remember where I heard that, but it could have been a real plan at one time.
Experiments were actually carried out - before calmer heads prevailed. The timers weren't all that reliable.
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Reply #10 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 2:57pm
Craig.
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wouldnt surprise me, they came up with some crazy ideas back then
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Reply #11 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 3:06pm
Hagar
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wouldnt surprise me, they came up with some crazy ideas back then
Indeed & they're still coming up with crazy ideas. These boffins are a very weird bunch of people.
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Reply #12 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 5:56pm
Woodlouse2002
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Experiments were actually carried out - before calmer heads prevailed. The timers weren't all that reliable.
Not before the test bats had been released, and returned to the base they were released from... The results are obvious.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #13 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 7:47pm
Saratoga
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Eesh, imagine that, waking up to a burning bat in your bed!
Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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Reply #14 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 7:50pm
beaky
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Not before the test bats had been released, and returned to the base they were released from... The results are obvious.
LOL!! Hoist by your own... bat.
I
knew
this story was true... I remember now that I read it in a "Weird War" or "War is Hell" comic book many years ago... so it had to be true.
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Reply #15 -
Mar 21
st
, 2005 at 8:13pm
TacitBlue
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something else weird from the japanese: they launched timed balloon bombs toward the US, and a few of them actually made it here. Not very effective though,I think only 2 civilians were killed by these balloons. This was only declassified a few years ago (I think).
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Reply #16 -
Mar 22
nd
, 2005 at 5:32am
Craig.
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Eesh, imagine that, waking up to a burning bat in your bed!
Wouldn't some rednecks consider that a good breakfast?
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Reply #17 -
Mar 22
nd
, 2005 at 6:17am
beaky
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something else weird from the japanese: they launched timed balloon bombs toward the US, and a few of them actually made it here. Not very effective though,I think only 2 civilians were killed by these balloons. This was only declassified a few years ago (I think).
Yes, I've heard of that. One came down in Wash. state, I believe, near a picknicking family. They went to investigate, and it went off just as they got close enough. I think they had altimeter fuses...
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Reply #18 -
Mar 22
nd
, 2005 at 6:30am
Hagar
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Those sort of things are fine unless the wind changes. I've read about mustard gas during WWI blowing back over the trenches of the side using it. What you might call an own goal.
The weather is unpredictable at the best of times &, even now, weather forecasting is an inexact science. I wouldn't rely on it.
While on the subject of animals being used in wartime, RAF bombers carried a pigeon as standard equipment during WWII operations. The idea was if the bomber crash-landed somewhere the crew could release the pigeon with a brief message giving their whereabouts. I'm not sure if this was ever used in anger or succeeded if it was. The pigeon loft at Bletchley Park (the famous Station X decoding centre) which was once used for receiving messages & microfilm from agents in occupied Europe is still there today.
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Reply #19 -
Mar 22
nd
, 2005 at 2:01pm
Woodlouse2002
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You must also remember that the Russians trained dogs to look for food under tanks. They then took the dogs onto the battlefield with mines strapped to their backs. Unfortunately the dogs had been trained using Russian tanks... Ooops.
Ain't poetic justice wonderful.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #20 -
Mar 22
nd
, 2005 at 4:54pm
beaky
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Quote:
You must also remember that the Russians trained dogs to look for food under tanks. They then took the dogs onto the battlefield with mines strapped to their backs. Unfortunately the dogs had been trained using Russian tanks... Ooops.
Ain't poetic justice wonderful.
Brings a tear to my eye... beautiful. Kinda feel sorry for the tank crews (not their idea, I'm sure), but that is justice indeed. Given a chance, dogs have shown heroism and great effectiveness in war as recon scouts, guards, search and rescue team members, even footsoldiers- wrong to use them merely as weapons.
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Reply #21 -
Mar 27
th
, 2005 at 5:05pm
Saratoga
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Sadly rotty, the goal seems to be how much can we use for weapons?
Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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