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"Fold up bomber"??? (Read 816 times)
Mar 21st, 2005 at 8:38am

dakota-flyer   Offline
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I research team just found an old Japanese sub wrecked off the island of Hawaii.   

The submarines (type I-401's) were designed to carry three "fold-up" bombers that could be assembled for flight within minutes.

Any idea what kind of planes they might have been???

As an aside...
An I-400 and I-401 were captured at sea a week after the Japanese surrendered in 1945. Their mission — which was never completed — reportedly was to use the aircraft to drop rats and insects infected with bubonic plague, cholera, typhus and other diseases on U.S. cities.
 

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Reply #1 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 8:58am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
As an aside...
An I-400 and I-401 were captured at sea a week after the Japanese surrendered in 1945. Their mission - which was never completed - reportedly was to use the aircraft to drop rats and insects infected with bubonic plague, cholera, typhus and other diseases on U.S. cities.

You don't quote your source so I can't say if there's any truth in that. Anything is possible in total war but it sounds unlikely to me. This might answer your question on the aircraft. According the artist the I400 class boats were designed to attack the Panama Canal.
...

Quote:
Monstrous vessels (with a submerged displacement in the order of 6000tons, a crew of, apparently 180-odd men, and...well, .....that hangar could take a London or New York subway train...!) they were true submersible aircraft carriers, each being equipped with three Aichi M61A "Seiran" floatplane attack bombers.

In this painting I have chosen to illustrate the "final act" of the Japanese submarine service in World War Two - truly, the war is over - it is late August 1945 and Japan has surrendered; in a very short time that Japanese Naval Ensign will be lowered and replaced with a simple black flag, signifying surrender to the U.S. Navy.

But before this took place, the crews of I400, I401 and I402 carried out one small, bloodless gesture of defiance. They catapulted their aircraft into the sea.

Here, on the deck of I401, we can see a Seiran being prepared for launching, whilst sailors armed with sledgehammers are busy knocking holes into the floats of the aircraft before pitching them over the side.

http://www.subart.net/final_act.htm

This was not a new idea & various types of aircraft had beeen carried on submarines before. They were usually housed in special hangars when not in use.
 

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Reply #2 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 9:01am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Aichi M6A Seiran - one still exists and is being restored for static exhibition..

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/resources/tech/aircraft/seiran.html

 

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Reply #3 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 9:14am

dakota-flyer   Offline
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Thanks, I'll have to look for an FS9 version.  And just to let folks know, there's more info in the article on foxnews.com (top of the page).

 

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Reply #4 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 9:31am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Thanks, I'll have to look for an FS9 version.  And just to let folks know, there's more info in the article on foxnews.com (top of the page).

Don't believe everything you hear or read in the media. I treat all news reports as suspect & class Fox News in the same category as the British Sun "newspaper" with regard to accuracy. They usually manage to get the date right. Wink
 

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Reply #5 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 9:49am

dakota-flyer   Offline
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The same article is on cnn.com.  Neither refers to a source, regarding the rats and diseases.
 

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Reply #6 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 10:15am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
The same article is on cnn.com.  Neither refers to a source, regarding the rats and diseases.

Not wishing to labour the point but both articles that Felix & I quoted state that the objective was to attack the Panama Canal, specifically the lock gates. I don't think that bugs or diseases would be much use against this type of target. I read somewhere that 100s of workers died from yellow fever, malaria, typhoid fever, smallpox, and other tropical diseases while they were building it so it would hardly be necessary to introduce these diseases.
Quote:
Designed to attack the Panama Canal (an act which would have given the allies a few problems!), the I400 class boats of the Imperial Japanese Navy were the largest submarines of WWII - and never saw combat ! Of this class, only two or three appear to have survived until the end of the war. I404 was destroyed in a bombing raid, and I405 was never completed.

Quote:
Plans were formulated to bomb the Panama Canal's lock gates and Navy Anchorage at Ulithi.
 

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Reply #7 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 11:13am

Craig.   Offline
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=10&u=/ap/20050321...
Thats reported by the AP. who mention something about rats and insects being dropped in cities by the bombers.
 
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Reply #8 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 2:55pm

beaky   Offline
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Reminds me of stories I heard about an Allied (!) plan to release bats with incendiary packs over cities during WWII. The idea was that they'd roost in old belfries and whatnot, and a timer would set off the pack... can't remember where I heard that, but it could have been a real plan at one time.
 

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Reply #9 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 2:56pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Reminds me of stories I heard about an Allied (!) plan to release bats with incendiary packs over cities during WWII. The idea was that they'd roost in old belfries and whatnot, and a timer would set off the pack... can't remember where I heard that, but it could have been a real plan at one time.


Experiments were actually carried out - before calmer heads prevailed.  The timers weren't all that reliable.

 

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Reply #10 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 2:57pm

Craig.   Offline
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wouldnt surprise me, they came up with some crazy ideas back then
 
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Reply #11 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 3:06pm

Hagar   Offline
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wouldnt surprise me, they came up with some crazy ideas back then

Indeed & they're still coming up with crazy ideas. These boffins are a very weird bunch of people. Wink
 

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Reply #12 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 5:56pm

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Quote:
Experiments were actually carried out - before calmer heads prevailed.  The timers weren't all that reliable.


Not before the test bats had been released, and returned to the base they were released from... The results are obvious. Grin
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #13 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 7:47pm

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Eesh, imagine that, waking up to a burning bat in your bed!
 

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Reply #14 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 7:50pm

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
Not before the test bats had been released, and returned to the base they were released from... The results are obvious. Grin


LOL!! Hoist by your own... bat.
I knew this story was true... I remember now that I read it in a "Weird War" or "War is Hell" comic book many years ago... so it had to be true. Wink
 

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Reply #15 - Mar 21st, 2005 at 8:13pm

TacitBlue   Offline
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something else weird from the japanese: they launched timed balloon bombs toward the US, and a few of them actually made it here. Not very effective though,I think only 2 civilians were killed by these balloons. This was only declassified a few years ago (I think).
 

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Reply #16 - Mar 22nd, 2005 at 5:32am

Craig.   Offline
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Quote:
Eesh, imagine that, waking up to a burning bat in your bed!

Wouldn't some rednecks consider that a good breakfast? Grin
 
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Reply #17 - Mar 22nd, 2005 at 6:17am

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
something else weird from the japanese: they launched timed balloon bombs toward the US, and a few of them actually made it here. Not very effective though,I think only 2 civilians were killed by these balloons. This was only declassified a few years ago (I think).


Yes, I've heard of that. One came down in Wash. state, I believe, near a picknicking family. They went to investigate, and it went off just as they got close enough. I think they had altimeter fuses...
 

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Reply #18 - Mar 22nd, 2005 at 6:30am

Hagar   Offline
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Those sort of things are fine unless the wind changes. I've read about mustard gas during WWI blowing back over the trenches of the side using it. What you might call an own goal. Roll Eyes
The weather is unpredictable at the best of times &, even now, weather forecasting is an inexact science. I wouldn't rely on it.

While on the subject of animals being used in wartime, RAF bombers carried a pigeon as standard equipment during WWII operations. The idea was if the bomber crash-landed somewhere the crew could release the pigeon with a brief message giving their whereabouts. I'm not sure if this was ever used in anger or succeeded if it was. The pigeon loft at Bletchley Park (the famous Station X decoding centre) which was once used for receiving messages & microfilm from agents in occupied Europe is still there today.
 

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Reply #19 - Mar 22nd, 2005 at 2:01pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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You must also remember that the Russians trained dogs to look for food under tanks. They then took the dogs onto the battlefield with mines strapped to their backs. Unfortunately the dogs had been trained using Russian tanks... Ooops. Tongue

Ain't poetic justice wonderful. Grin
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #20 - Mar 22nd, 2005 at 4:54pm

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Quote:
You must also remember that the Russians trained dogs to look for food under tanks. They then took the dogs onto the battlefield with mines strapped to their backs. Unfortunately the dogs had been trained using Russian tanks... Ooops. Tongue

Ain't poetic justice wonderful. Grin


Brings a tear to my eye... beautiful. Kinda feel sorry for the tank crews (not their idea, I'm sure), but that is justice indeed. Given a chance, dogs have shown heroism and great effectiveness in war as recon scouts, guards,  search and rescue team members,  even footsoldiers-  wrong to use them merely as weapons.
 

...
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Reply #21 - Mar 27th, 2005 at 5:05pm

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Sadly rotty, the goal seems to be how much can we use for weapons?
 

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