Simviation Forum - Beaufighter vs. Ki-45

Reply #15 - Mar 28^th, 2005 at 9:34am

Foxhound-B Ex Member

There were some german night fighter pilots with eighty victories and more. But not all of them flew the Me-110. Later they also flew He-219s and Ju-88s. Both of them were much better aircraft than the Me, since the He-219 was planned as a nightfighter from the beginning on and the Ju-88 had superior performance to the Messerschmitt.

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Reply #16 - Mar 28^th, 2005 at 9:49am

Hagar Offline
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I suspect it's more down to the situation & type of enemy aircraft. Nightfighters work best in a defensive situation when they're over home territory & directed by a reliable control sytem with experienced operators. Put any Luftwaffe nightfighter in amongst an RAF bomber stream anywhere over Western Europe & he could take his pick until his ammo ran out. Many bombers were shot down without ever seeing the aircraft that attacked them. Some of the more experienced nightfighter pilots would lurk around the circuit of the bomber bases & pick them off just when they thought they'd made it home safely.

I don't think the RAF had the same success rate mainly because the AI radar equipment wasn't available during the London Blitz. Ordinary day fighters like the Hurricane & Spitfire were used as nightfighters & after being directed onto the target the pilots had to rely on their eyesight. When they eventually got the equipment & specialised aircraft the Luftwaffe night attacks were often hit & run raids by individual aircraft & never in the concentrated numbers they had been in 1940/41.

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Reply #17 - Mar 28^th, 2005 at 11:12am

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Quote:

There were some german night fighter pilots with eighty victories and more. But not all of them flew the Me-110. Later they also flew He-219s and Ju-88s. Both of them were much better aircraft than the Me, since the He-219 was planned as a nightfighter from the beginning on and the Ju-88 had superior performance to the Messerschmitt.

I agree with you. My comment on the Me110 as a type was only because of opportunity (as Hagar explains) and numbers (There definitely were more Me110s available than He219s, and probably Ju88 conversions..

The better night fighter pilots would have been moved to the better platforms.

There may have been better night fighters (ex. P61 Black Widow) but the Luftwaffe night fighters had more "opportunities".

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #18 - Mar 29^th, 2005 at 3:05pm

Jester Offline
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I am wondering about both which aircraft, and the pilot. Forgive me for not being specific.

In the case of the Me110 (or any aircraft with multiple gun stations), who would get credit for a victory if the tail gunner shoots down a plane: the tail gunner, the pilot, or the aircraft? Sorry, I am completely uneducated about this.

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Reply #19 - Mar 29^th, 2005 at 3:15pm

Hagar Offline
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I'm no authority on nightfighters but I suspect that on 2-seat aircraft like the Bf 110 the pilot did the shooting. The other crew member would operate the AI radar to guide him on to the target.

According to this, Major Heinz Schnaufer, with 121 victories, was the top-scoring night fighter ace of all time
http://www.aviationarthangar.com/tnifibfzeava.html Quote:

Throughout his career Schnaufer only flew the Bf110 operationally, despite subsequently commanding a Geschwader equipped with the JU 88.

PS. Sorry, apparently the Bf 110 nightfighter could carry 3 crew. The gunner was optional & I suspect the rearward firing gun, either single or double-barreled according to type, was mainly defensive.

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Reply #20 - Mar 30^th, 2005 at 5:08am

Foxhound-B Ex Member

Quote:

PS. Sorry, apparently the Bf 110 nightfighter could carry 3 crew. The gunner was optional & I suspect the rearward firing gun, either single or double-barreled according to type, was mainly defensive.

I second that. The gunner mostly had two 7.92mm MGs avaiable.

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Reply #21 - Apr 13^th, 2005 at 4:31am

HH Offline
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Unless the 110 was being flown backwards, the rear gunstation was certainly defensive -- except to whoever was attacking from behind: to him, it was very offensive.
Sorry, sometimes just can't stop these kind of thoughts.

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Reply #22 - Apr 17^th, 2005 at 2:10am

denishc Offline
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Quote:

Unless the 110 was being flown backwards, the rear gunstation was certainly defensive -- except to whoever was attacking from behind: to him, it was very offensive.
Sorry, sometimes just can't stop these kind of thoughts.

This brings up an interesting question, should a defensive gunner down an attacking aircraft does he get credit for the kill? Or does it go to the pilot? (In some cases the pilot would maneuver the aircraft to give the rear gunner a better shot at the attacker.) I'm sure the kill is marked to the aircraft but who gets the credit and have there been any defensive gunner "aces"?

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Reply #23 - Apr 17^th, 2005 at 2:35am

Foxhound-B Ex Member

Well, I think all kills were "shared" between the gunner and the pilot, so if the pilot was an ace, the gunner was one,too.

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