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Cloud on Wing (Read 703 times)
Mar 17th, 2005 at 2:31am

ChrisM   Offline
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Hi everyone,
I was looking at some photos of some 747's and concords and there seems to be a cloud or spray coming off the wings.  What is it???

Thanks...Chris Grin
 

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Reply #1 - Mar 17th, 2005 at 3:05am

SilverFox441   Offline
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Condensation in the airflow. Air pressure changes cause water vapour to condense back into droplets, which become visible. Some planes are very prone to the effect, others will rarely exhibit this phenomenon, F/A-18s will frequently show condensation trails from the wingtips, just inboard of the missile rails. A vortex forms in this location that amplifies the normal condensation effect.
 

Steve (Silver Fox) Daly
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Reply #2 - Mar 17th, 2005 at 6:08am

beaky   Offline
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By way of elaboration, I'll add to silver's explanation:
As a fluid (such as air) increases its velocity (as it does when going up and over a lifting surface), its temperature decreases airplane . Air holds more water in vapor form the warmer it is; if that moist air cools, the water is forced to condense into heavier droplets, often to the point where it's visible. This is why carbeurators sometimes collect ice, also: as the air slips into the narrow opening, it speeds up, the water condenses and clings to the rim, and if it gets cold enough in that zone, ice begins to form.
 

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Reply #3 - Mar 17th, 2005 at 9:51am

Rifleman   Offline
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Quote:
By way of elaboration, I'll add to silver's explanation:
As a fluid (such as air) increases its velocity (as it does when going up and over a lifting surface), its temperature decreases airplane ..


Ah, ...I get it now, the plane is really stationary and the air moves past the wing  ???.......well, that really explains why it takes so long to travel by air......... Shocked

Wink

Cheesy

Grin
 

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Reply #4 - Mar 17th, 2005 at 12:20pm

SilverFox441   Offline
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Airplanes don't actually move, the Earth moves under them. Planes are just a place where a predictable amount of Earth rotation can be experienced,

After all, we all know that the world revolves around pilots. Smiley
 

Steve (Silver Fox) Daly
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Reply #5 - Mar 17th, 2005 at 4:17pm

beaky   Offline
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Ooh- a buncha wiseguys, huh?
Not to get into the "Bernoulli vs. Newton" thing, but air certainly goes a bit faster over the top of the wing than anywhere else on an airplane (in normal flight). That's why you don't see this effect on the whole airplane.
 

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Reply #6 - Mar 17th, 2005 at 5:02pm

ChrisM   Offline
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Thanks for clearing that up for me.  Two more questions.  What are the thin white streams that come from the wingtips or the edge of the flaps ???

example

Also how are contrails formed??

example

Thanks...Chris

 

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Reply #7 - Mar 17th, 2005 at 5:18pm

beaky   Offline
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The "thin streams" in that picture look like vortices that are visible because of the same thing as the "wing-clouds", but I've only seen that off wingtips. A vortex like that is formed because the air underneath the wing is "trying to get out from under" and a great deal of it travels out towards the tips as well as straight to the trailing edge. Once it reaches the end, it tends to curl up and inward. It's a lot like a breaking wave in the ocean- and in the case of a very heavy airplane moving slowly (such as during takeoff climb), they can be almost as powerful.  Needless to say, after breaking free of the bottom surface of the wing, that airflow is going to speed up for a bit as it releases its energy, which could produce that acceleration-induced cooling I mentioned earlier, as well as a lot of energy. They're usually invisible, but that factor (with high humidity) dust, or passing through smoke or clouds can render them visible.  There's a very well-known air-to-air picture of a bizjet skimming clouds and leaving lovely big vortices behind; unfortunately I don't have a link.
Contrails are due to water vapor and possibly other stuff in the exhaust, but the condensation in that case is due to the chilling effect of high-altitude air, as opposed to acceleration. Next time you see a jet laying down contrails, watch them for a while... sometimes they "turn into" clouds. They're the same thing: water vapor condensing (and sometimes freezing) due to a drop in temperature.
 

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Reply #8 - Mar 17th, 2005 at 5:28pm

beaky   Offline
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Quote:
Ah, ...I get it now, the plane is really stationary and the air moves past the wing  ???.......well, that really explains why it takes so long to travel by air......... Shocked

Wink

Cheesy

Grin


Ah, I see my typo now; yes, I am in fact a jackass. Or at least, I can't type or cut&paste as well as a jackass...
   In honor of the good it often does me to be humiliated, I will not fix it... 8)
 

...
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Reply #9 - Mar 17th, 2005 at 10:38pm

Saratoga   Offline
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It creates some very beautiful effects doesn't it?

Quote:
After all, we all know that the world revolves around pilots.


Isn't that the truth? Too bad it isn't true. Wink
 

Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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Reply #10 - Mar 18th, 2005 at 1:16am

ChrisM   Offline
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Thanks Rottydaddy Grin
 

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Reply #11 - Mar 20th, 2005 at 11:40am

Jared   Offline
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lol, always a good laugh..Smiley
 
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Reply #12 - Mar 20th, 2005 at 11:42am

Saratoga   Offline
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Quote:
lol, always a good laugh..Smiley


Indeed he is.
 

Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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Reply #13 - Mar 20th, 2005 at 1:53pm

beaky   Offline
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Buncha nitpickers, that's what you are.  Angry. But laugh while you can-  I've just about run thru the list of possible errors involved here; probably won't repeat any of them. Pretty good learning curve for an analog-bred, three-finger-typin' caveman... Grin
 

...
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Reply #14 - Mar 20th, 2005 at 2:11pm

Saratoga   Offline
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LOL! Typing is a tricky thing, isn't it?
 

Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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Reply #15 - Mar 23rd, 2005 at 12:13pm

beaky   Offline
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Yse. it isd- btu what really got me on that one was cutting and patsing. i mean psating. I mean... and for some reason, the Shift key doesn't always work when I type an I. Yeah, that's it... it's the keyboard. Must be...
 

...
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Reply #16 - Mar 27th, 2005 at 5:19pm

Saratoga   Offline
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Well I went to visit a friend yesterday and caught the last HOU-DAL flight on SWA home, which was more convienent then flying as an employee on AA. Plus getting free flights since she was a flight attendant helped. But anyways, got this shot just for you all. The vapour is hitting the wing as we punched through a light storm coming out of Houston. Got many more pics and a few videos from the trip also if anyone is interested.
...
 

Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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