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Woman Walks into Propeller?!? (Read 1018 times)
Feb 14
th
, 2005 at 12:59pm
Homer Simpson
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A News item I found today on a completely non-aviation related website:
A woman was injured by a propeller while walking by a plane at the Lebanon airport last night.
Emergency responders arriving at the airport shortly after 6 p.m. found the 22 year old woman injured on her right side, arm and pelvis. The identify of the the woman is unknown due to federal privacy laws. The victim was flown to Vanderbilt by Lifeflight helicopter, where she underwent surgery last night and was reported in critical condition.
Witnesses said she had gotten out of the single-engine Cessna 172 and was walking around it when she accidentally walked into the propeller. Police said her father was the pilot and at least two other people were on board.
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Reply #1 -
Feb 14
th
, 2005 at 1:47pm
chomp_rock
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Unfortunately this type of event is quite common, some people are just too stupid to realise that the time you can safely enter or exit the aircraft is when it is shut down.
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Reply #2 -
Feb 14
th
, 2005 at 3:11pm
jrpilot
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Same thing for helicopters....well not really....but many people are afraid that when walking in and out of a helicoptor that their head might get chopped off even though there is room....but I think when the blades are starting off they are low...but IDK heli.
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Reply #3 -
Feb 14
th
, 2005 at 3:20pm
Craig.
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Jr with helicopters you are usually ok as long as the blades are moving at speed. But as they wind down they start to droop and even at slower RPM can cause you to loose an appendage. The general rule is keep your head down no matter the height of the prop disc, and dont throw your arms up in the air:) Even choppers with the Lynx style hard blades can be problematic.
As for this story. Sad but all to common She is lucky to have survived and i am sure has learnt a valuable lesson. Even long time ramp workers suffer from accidents round props its just so easy to forget sometimes when your busy.
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Reply #4 -
Feb 14
th
, 2005 at 7:57pm
TrinidadN98AV
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It would seem to me that common sense says "stay away from loud, fast spinning objects" most people would be petrified to walk up to a running plane, much less get close enough to hit the prop.
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Reply #5 -
Feb 14
th
, 2005 at 8:16pm
beaky
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It seems pretty easy to forget it's there- I've heard quite a few stories like this. People just walk right into them. Most aren't so "lucky" as this woman. The PIC should always warn pax to not exit until the prop stops moving. I always do...and when they ask why I yell "clear prop!" before startup even if nobody's around, I tell them that it's so I'll never forget to do it. Then I usually tell them a blood-curdling prop-strike story, just to really set the mood
.
And you've gotta keep an eye out when taxiing- be ready to yank the mixture if somebody gets to close. Man, that could ruin your whole day...
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Reply #6 -
Feb 14
th
, 2005 at 8:57pm
Jared
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I feel bad for the father, think how giulty he feels now? I know he deserves to some extent...
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Reply #7 -
Feb 14
th
, 2005 at 9:29pm
Rocket_Bird
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Quote:
Same thing for helicopters....well not really....but many people are afraid that when walking in and out of a helicoptor that their head might get chopped off even though there is room....but I think when the blades are starting off they are low...but IDK heli.
Every passenger in a helicopter should be briefed by the pilot to keep their head down (or lean down) and step into and away from the helicopter where the pilot has a significant view of them. There may be sufficient space when the rotor is up to speed, but no one should bet their life on that. Especially have to watch out when landing on sloped terrain. Another danger spot that most people run into on helicopters is the tail rotor...
Back to the story, Sure hope shes ok... its a sad thing when these things happen. Moving aircraft parts are always such a danger to human life.
Cheers,
RB
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Reply #8 -
Feb 15
th
, 2005 at 7:25am
Hagar
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This is a tragedy that should never have happened. I've been around light aircraft all my life & used to swing the props at one time. I also taught others to do it safely. Like any other piece of machinery these things are perfectly safe providing they're treated with respect. Fortunately I was taught properly & was always aware of the danger of an aircraft propeller even when it's stationary & the engine is switched off. If the pilot doesn't use the correct procedure when shutting down, aircraft piston engines have a nasty habit of "kicking back" after stopping & the prop will turn through several revolutions, sometimes in the reverse direction. Also, if the earth (ground) lead to the magneto is broken or disconnected the ignition is live. Props are potentially dangerous & anyone close to an aircraft should give the propeller a wide berth, even walk round the rear of the aircraft rather than risk coming anywhere near the prop. It might seem silly or wimpish but it makes sense.
The same is true for model aircraft & electric motors can be more dangerous than I/C engines.
As for helicopters, I remember a very tragic case in the UK not long ago. The pilot had landed near his home & his young daughter ran out to greet him as he stepped out of the door. He grabbed the child & without thinking threw her in the air - straight into the still spinning rotor blades. She was obviously killed. It still makes me shudder to think about it.
It only takes a second's lapse of concentration for these things to happen. I like the BMFA (British Model Flying Association) motto. Safe Flying is No Accident. Think about it & remember it.
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Reply #9 -
Feb 15
th
, 2005 at 4:01pm
Saratoga
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I remember, not too long after I started flying for regionals in the EMB-120. The startup procedure called for the left engine to be started first, and company procedure wanted us to start even before all the passengers were out there (they have sinced changed that). The prop was less than 3 feet from the door. Which, if we absolutely had to start, meant one of the pilots was standing dangerously close to the prop keeping passengers from hitting it. I know one guy who stuck his left arm out to make sure a passenger went well away from the propeller and got it caught, tore his arm up horribly and ruined his flying career. Thankfully that procedure has since changed.
I do like the Dash-8 where you can completely disconnect the propellers, allowing the jets to run and provide electrical power, air conditioning, etc. and yet not have any sort of danger from a spinning propeller. Genius that they included that feature.
Sometimes I wish I still flew that old Brasilia, but the 757 is just so much more fun!
Do hope she's ok though...
Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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Feb 17
th
, 2005 at 11:49am
Staiduk
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It's real easy - because we all do it - to say 'how stupid!' etc. But most of us also realize how easy it is to have a momentary brainfart and do something so totally dumb it leaves us breathless.
Case in point: I was flying tow somewhere around '98, and doing the walkaround on our 'Big Green Jellybean' Citabria one morning. I can't remember exactly what I was doing; but I'd just gotten to the "Inspect cowling" part of the walkaround and started looking at something closely just inside the cowling. It took a few seconds for me to realize what I was doing - you know that "Oh $h!!!!!ttttt" feeling? I was standing astride the prop; hand on the upper blade; legs on both sides of the lower blade; with elbow resting on the spinner and right hand inside the cowling
with the key in the ignition
. No-one saw - thankfully - but lor' that's one of those things that years later still makes you smack your head.
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Reply #11 -
Feb 17
th
, 2005 at 3:54pm
beaky
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Staiduk, that one gave me the shivers. You're right, though, even smart people do dumb things, esp. when engaged in some familiar activity.
Best thing about sharing these stories is that it'll help us all remember how narrow the margin is in aviation...
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Reply #12 -
Feb 17
th
, 2005 at 4:13pm
Hagar
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I got caught out by a prop just the once. Despite what I said previously about being careful I got complacent & almost paid the price for it. This is very easy when you're used to working with anything. When I first started in the business I looked after 4 aircraft in the club hangar. First thing in the morning during DI it was general practice to turn the props a few revolutions to get rid of any excess oil that had drained into the cylinder heads overnight, These were the old Gipsy Major inverted inline engines. The Tiger Moth has the mag switches outside the cockpit on the side of the fuselage so the mechanic can see them when he's swinging the prop, a very useful idea. I always checked these carefully before turning the prop & both sets of switches were in the OFF position. On this particular morning I turned the prop rather casually & the engine fired with the prop cracking me on the back of the hand. Fortunately the throttle was closed & the fuel switched off so it only turned the one revolution. It shook me up a little & left a big red weal on the back of my hand but otherwise I was OK. I was alone in the hangar & dread to think what might have happened.
When I investigated, the earth lead to the mag with the impulse starter mechanism had broken. This must have happened when I taxied the aircraft over to the hangar on the previous evening & shut the engine down. There was no sign of a problem & it had stopped nomally. I was extremely lucky & this was a timely lesson that I never forgot. Always treat a prop as if it's live.
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Reply #13 -
Feb 17
th
, 2005 at 7:04pm
Staiduk
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Quote:
"I've been around light aircraft all my life & used to swing the props at one time.
Actually; I had the opportunity to try that once.
Once.
I was around 15-16; can't for the life of me remember what the aircraft was; it was one of those Pup-ish private jobbies that collect in hangar corners. Anyhoo; the owner was one of the Cadets' sponsors and he let me swing the prop - with a great deal of talking to beforehand. Hey; I felt like a man striding out to that thing with him - reliving 'the romantic days of early flight' and all that, with images of SE5's and Camels and Jennys, etc.
Of course; then I got up to it and realized I was about to hand-start a gigantic food processor and would be standing right in its direction of travel....
and
realized I wasn't exactly the most co-ordinated kid - a typical gangly teen...
I said "huuuuuuuuuuuhhhhh..... no." and backed off.
I'll
watch
the 'romantic days of early flight' thanks.
On a more serious note - one that just occurred to me: Someone else mentioned helos on this thread. You never, never, never walk 'round the front of an idling aircraft - and never, never, never walk 'round the
tail
of a helicopter - both for the same reason. I wonder how many preoccupied people have screwed that up and met nasty ends forgetting that rule?
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Reply #14 -
Feb 17
th
, 2005 at 7:16pm
Staiduk
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Hi again - this thread just reminded me of an old video I have somewhere - a 1943 USAAF training video called 'Pilot Heaven'. Pretty much like any military training film; an instructor who's no actor (and doesn't need to be), a few cheap jokes and a deadly serious message.
The dude in the film is (was, rather) a P-38 instructor; and in the story wanders up to 'Pilot Heaven' where he jaws with all the pilots that killed themselves making common mistakes.
It's a pretty good film - I made a copy and donated it to a couple of the local Air Cadet squadrons. It's 1943; but the lessons are as valid today of course.
If you find it; I reccommend it.
And yes; there's a bit in it of a B-24 pilot who's not looking where he's going and walks into...well; you can guess. Good thing they didn't have special effects back then.
And actually, it's from that video I have my
own
personal mantra: "Never stretch a glide. Never stretch a glide. Never stretch a glide. Never stretch a glide."
(Which was a danger with me - I started by flying gliders; so was a bit too comfortable bringing the throttle back on a 172. I damn near got caught in a stall 200m off the end of the runway - never again.)
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Feb 17
th
, 2005 at 7:28pm
Hagar
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Quote:
Actually; I had the opportunity to try that once.
Once.
I was around 15-16; can't for the life of me remember what the aircraft was; it was one of those Pup-ish private jobbies that collect in hangar corners. Anyhoo; the owner was one of the Cadets' sponsors and he let me swing the prop - with a great deal of talking to beforehand. Hey; I felt like a man striding out to that thing with him - reliving 'the romantic days of early flight' and all that, with images of SE5's and Camels and Jennys, etc.
Of course; then I got up to it and realized I was about to hand-start a gigantic food processor and would be standing right in its direction of travel....
and
realized I wasn't exactly the most co-ordinated kid - a typical gangly teen...
I said "huuuuuuuuuuuhhhhh..... no." and backed off.
I'll
watch
the 'romantic days of early flight' thanks.
Strange you should say that. When I worked at the flying club we often had a number of air cadets, usually CCF lads from Lancing College, taking flying scholarships during the summer months. The ones I was involved with in the 2 years I was there were all nice lads & willing to do anything to help. They enjoyed refuelling the aircraft, moving them around, taxying them to & from the hangar on the other side of the airfield & suchlike but the thing they all seemed to want to do most was swing those props. I never figured out why. When they asked me to teach them I told them to speak to the CFI (Chief Flying Instructor) about it as I couldn't do it without his permission. Health & safety regulations weren't as strict as they are now but it was still a big responsibility for someone the same age as them. I'm proud to say they all took notice of what I told them & we never had a single mishap. My being a senior NCO in the ATC at the time didn''t do any harm. Those boys were a great help to me as the club was run on a small budget. I enjoyed having them around.
Quote:
On a more serious note - one that just occurred to me: Someone else mentioned helos on this thread. You never, never, never walk 'round the front of an idling aircraft - and never, never, never walk 'round the
tail
of a helicopter - both for the same reason. I wonder how many preoccupied people have screwed that up and met nasty ends forgetting that rule?
That's a good point. It seems obvious but it might be easy to forget if you fly both fixed-wing & helicopters. I've never been involved with helicopters myself. Never flown in one either.
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Feb 17
th
, 2005 at 8:36pm
Craig.
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The most interesting thing i noticed when down on the base with my dad was, how many times some of the guys had to be reminded about walking round the back of the Lynx. Because they usually worked with the gazzel where its not a big problem because of the enclosed tail rotor. They would start to wonder back while it was running. Quite scarey in some cases.
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Reply #17 -
Feb 18
th
, 2005 at 11:05pm
Staiduk
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Quote:
I'm proud to say they all took notice of what I told them & we never had a single mishap. My being a senior NCO in the ATC at the time didn''t do any harm. Those boys were a great help to me as the club was run on a small budget. I enjoyed having them around.
Yeah, Air Cadets are great kids - by and large lots of fun to work with with tons of heart. I worked with them right through my Army career, teaching, setting up dog 'n ponies, etc. Bringing 20 or so teens out into the field for a weekend with the reg. force and let them pretend and have fun - tons of fun for all.
The real fun was when we occasionally reciprocated; letting the soldiers who helped out come to a Cadet gliding weekend. Great to see the kids suddenly in their element; bossing the soldiers around.
As for swinging props; it'd never be allowed nowadays with perhaps overly-cautious safety rules, but they'd all love to.
I'm just a total chickensh#$ about that sort of thing though.
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Reply #18 -
Feb 20
th
, 2005 at 12:21am
Saratoga
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Swinging props, ah the good ole' days of aviation.
I remember about three months ago, I had flown from my home airport down to an airport that was actually closer to my house, but was uncontrolled and didn't have an FBO on the field. Well they had a guy who would come out there every afternoon and wash the airplanes. When he did he checked everything he could, really nice guy who had been in the Air Force for his entire life and had retired and still wanted to be around planes. Well, he walked up as I was getting out of the plane and asked if I would like him to wash it, and in my total stupidity, left the battery on, endangering him as he cleaned around the engine. (Battery is on, mags could be hot) Next morning I got there, of course the plane was dead as a doornail and no one else was on the field. Got my handheld comm radio out and was going to see if anyone was on the CTAF frequency and ask if they knew if there was a power cart anywhere, naturally no one was there. So I put the parking brake on, eventually hand propped it, got in the plane and flew back up to the airport. Walked in explained my predicament to the CFI behind the counter and he told me a guy was killed earlier in the year handpropping the same airplane after he forgot to set the brake. I don't see how someone could forget, but apparently it's easy to do.
On another note, I have now made it a hobby to take that Air Force guy up every time I see him, sometimes to just putter around in a Cessna, sometimes to do some basic aerobatics in a 150 Aerobat. Gotta have some fun sometimes.
Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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Feb 20
th
, 2005 at 4:10am
Hagar
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Ah, we've all done our share of stupid things. I certainly have. The first thing I was taught about swinging props was NEVER do it on your own without someone in the cockpit. I thought this was simply because I was young & inexperienced as I'd seen others doing it. One day I found out for myself how dangerous it can be. Our aircraft were not only hand-swung but they were taildraggers without wheel brakes which meant you never started the engine without chocks in place. A combination of no chocks & swinging the prop on your own can be potientially fatal as I found out. Needless to say, the first time was the last I attempted anything so stupid.
A chap I worked with had worked at Gatwick Airport when it was a small grass airfield. He obviously had lots of fascinating stories to tell. Apparently one of the private owners he knew had a Piper Cub which can be hand swung by someone standing behind the prop. This also gives access to the throttle & mag switches. Anyway, this chap often used this method to start his Cub & one day forgot to set the brakes. I have no idea what he was doing but the throttle must have been fully open. When the engine fired it ran flat out. With no brakes it proceeded to take off & fly around on its own quite nicely. It ended up buried in the side of a hangar roof. Meanwhile, the ower had been knocked over by the wing struts.* He was lucky just to lose the aircraft. If he'd swung the prop in the conventional way by standing in front of it he wouldn't have had a chance. It doesn't bear thinking about.
*PS. Come to think of it, he might have had his hand on the throttle. When the aircraft moved forward he pushed it open as he fell over.
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Last Edit: Feb 20
th
, 2005 at 1:40pm by Hagar
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Reply #20 -
Feb 20
th
, 2005 at 1:11pm
beaky
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The other important thing about having someone in the cockpit is to have a PILOT in the cockpit, or so I've heard... The Cub-propping thing reminds me of those military scout variants (L4 Grasshopper) that were launched from Liberty Ships back in WWII, after conversion of large LSTs into mini aircraft carriers proved too costly and time-consuming to meet the demand... the pilot would lean out with a foot on the landing gear and swing the prop from behind while the plane was dangling over the side... they also recovered the planes with the hook. Imagine taking off like that, then flying out over the battlefields to spy on the enemy...in a Cub!! Ulp!!!
I'd heard of this long ago, but refreshed my memory here:
http://www.geocities.com/airbornemuseum/sld026.htm
There's a picture way at the bottom of the page of an L4 hanging from the "Brody device"...
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Reply #21 -
Feb 20
th
, 2005 at 1:38pm
Hagar
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Quote:
The other important thing about having someone in the cockpit is to have a PILOT in the cockpit, or so I've heard...
I imagine whoever told you that was a pilot. It certainly wasn't the poor clod that has to swing the props.
I would much rather have a mechanic in there myself. No offence to any pilots here but they never had too good a reputation with us lot in the hangar. Never knew quite what daft thing they would get up to next. I could tell you few horror stories but that can wait till some other time.
Quote:
There's a picture way at the bottom of the page of an L4 hanging from the "Brody device"...
Very interesting. Not sure I've come across this before. The old Cub is an amazing little plane.
PS. I just looked at that photo. Are you sure that's an L-4? Looks more like an L-5 to me.
http://www.warbirdalley.com/l5.htm
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Reply #22 -
Feb 20
th
, 2005 at 9:40pm
Saratoga
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Personally I don't hand prop anymore on anything with an electric starter. If the battery is dead, postpone the flight. No if's, and's, or but's about it. It's not worth risking someone's life. Even in a modern airplane with advanced brakes, there can be a problem, I wouldn't want to put anyone, myself, the mechanic, or the fuel guy in danger. Not to mention the entire city if the plane got airborne.
Pilot for a major US airline certified in the: EMB-120, CRJ, 727, 737, 757, 767, and A-320 and military, T-38, C-130, C-141, and C-5 along with misc. other small airplanes. Any questions, I'm here for you.
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Reply #23 -
Feb 21
st
, 2005 at 5:09am
Hagar
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I haven't done it for over 40 years but I reckon I could hand-swing a prop now if I had to. It's perfectly safe providing you know the procedure & follow the rules. All aircraft & engines have their own little ways. I would never attempt to swing a prop unless the wheels were chocked, even on aircraft with parking brakes. Most aircraft carry a set of chocks on board nowadays.
PS. I wouldn't feel confident swinging the US engines with clockwise rotation (viewed from the cockpit) fitted to most modern lght aircraft. We had an Auster 5 at Shoreham with a Lycoming engine. Although I was highly experienced & swung our own aircraft every day the owner wouldn't let me try it as he said it was far too dangerous. All our aircraft had engines with counter-clockwise rotation so they were swung with the right hand. This would obviously depend on whether you were right or left-handed. Most people seemed to be right-handed in my young days.
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Reply #24 -
Feb 21
st
, 2005 at 5:46am
beaky
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I know what Hagar means about pilots, but remember that cuts both ways- to wit my earlier-posted story about finding a pair of vise grips still clamped on a Dzus fastener on the cowling during preflight. Pretty sure I found a wrench inside the cowl, once while adding oil. But that may dirve home Hagar's point: if mechanics can't be trusted with such things, pilots are definitely out!!
And BTW, i'm sure you're right about the L5. I'm bad with model names unless they fit: like "Cub" or "Grasshopper".
And I agree with saratoga about hand-propping electric-equipped birds. If it isn't the battery, it's some problem that's best dealt with on the ground. I've seen that before- typically starter motors that won't turn properly or won't engage or disengage...
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Reply #25 -
Feb 21
st
, 2005 at 7:04am
Hagar
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Quote:
I know what Hagar means about pilots, but remember that cuts both ways.
There's good & bad in everything. I've met a few pilots over the years who should never have been allowed anywhere near an aeroplane. The chief pilot of a small airline run by my boss had very little idea of what went on under the bonnet (hood) & refused to listen to the advice of our chief engineer at the time. Consequently he was always reporting faults that he'd caused himself by not following the correct procedures. I'm sure he never appreciated that & probably still doesn't. He didn't last long & the last I heard of him he was flying for a major airline.
I recall an incident at Biggin Hill where the chief pilot of another airline smashed up a perfectly good aircraft during a "forced" wheels-up landing. This was entirely due to him not knowing how to operate the emergency gear pump which was found to be fully serviceable after the incident. The pump handle had to be pulled out from under the panel before pumping it up & down in the usual way. I seem to remember that this was written in big letters on the big red knob on the end of the handle. "Emergency Only - Pull Out before use" This idiot had been flying around for 1 hour pulling the handle in & out from under the panel instead of up & down. All this time he was reporting over the radio that he was pumping like mad but nothing appeared to be happening. Nobody thought to ask him which way he was pumping the bloomin' handle as he was the chief pilot after all.
Fortunately he was not hurt.
Quote:
i'm sure you're right about the L5. I'm bad with model names unless they fit: like "Cub" or "Grasshopper".
I think that "Grasshopper" is a generic term first applied to light aircraft used by the US sevices for spotting/liaison purposes during WWII. There were several examples including Aeronca, Stinson & Taylorcraft types - & of course the ubiquitous Piper Cub.
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Reply #26 -
Feb 21
st
, 2005 at 8:11am
Staiduk
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Bact to the story at hand; OTOH I remember a woman that backed into a propeller once....
Disaster.
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Reply #27 -
Feb 21
st
, 2005 at 8:17am
Hagar
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Quote:
Bact to the story at hand; OTOH I remember a woman that backed into a propeller once....
Disaster.
Would that disaster be the woman or the prop? A chap I knew at school once cut off a woman's nose with the prop on a control-line model aircraft. The engine was a small diesel about 1.5 cc. She walked straight into it.
Props can be dangerous whatever they're fitted to.
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Reply #28 -
Feb 21
st
, 2005 at 5:46pm
C
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Earth
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Quote:
They enjoyed refuelling the aircraft, moving them around, taxying them to & from the hangar on the other side of the airfield & suchlike but the thing they all seemed to want to do most was swing those props.
Strange young fellows - I'll take Terry-Thomas' lead and have Eric Sykes (or similar chappy/chappess) swing it for me...
Just thinking about it makes me want to burst into song...
[singing]
Those magnificent men in their flying machines...
[/singing]
[leaves room]
Charlie
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Reply #29 -
Feb 22
nd
, 2005 at 1:46pm
Staiduk
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Dis...ast...er.
(Rimshot)
(Leaves quietly....)
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Reply #30 -
Feb 22
nd
, 2005 at 2:17pm
Hagar
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Quote:
Dis...ast...er.
(Rimshot)
(Leaves quietly....)
Ah OK. I'm usually quicker than that.
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