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AI for FS2K-Problem (Read 293 times)
Jan 24th, 2005 at 4:12pm

ZOSO   Offline
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I recently figured out how to use TTools and AFCAD in FS2K.I was elated  once I finally figured out how it works! However there is one small problem. Mid sized aircraft will not land. They just keep on going. I read the TTools instruction manual it says this:

"S2002 only: There is a bug in the FS2002 AI terrain avoidance mechanism that prevent aircraft from landing at certain airports (e.g. Maui), or certain approaches to some airports. There is often not much that can be done about this, but it sometimes helps to open an alternate approach to avoid the ‘buggy’ terrain area by changing the wind direction, or making a whole different runway the active runway using AFCAD. Shifting the airport fix (see the Airports.txt file section) 5 or 10 miles away from the airport, and away from mountains, may also help. The terrain avoidance has been improved for FS2004. "

My question is: Is there anything I can do to correct the terrain avoidance glitch so my plane will land? Is there a download to correct this or will I need to correct manually? If I need to do it manually, how do I do this?
Thanks for reading. I'm new to the message board.  Grin
 
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Reply #1 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 4:21pm

Hagar   Offline
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Hi Zozo. Before worrying about terrain avoidance make sure you have sufficient spare parking spaces of the correct size available at the destination airport. If there are no available parking spaces the aircraft will not land.
 

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Reply #2 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 4:44pm

ZOSO   Offline
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I have already added additional parking (KCRW 5000ft runway) for this aiport so that isn't the problem. I used the default 737 and tried to see if it would land but it crashed upon contact of the runway. It seemed to want to make a"going around" procedure but suddenly it seemed to rapidly decelerate and decend. The addon aircraft I tried landing just flew on by....any other suggestions? Is there a patch to fix this glitch? Thanks!
 
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Reply #3 - Jan 24th, 2005 at 7:16pm
RollerBall   Ex Member

 
Hi Zoso - I assume we're talking about FS2002 here.

You're not talking about a 'glitch' here that you just fix with a patch unfortunately. Yes, high terrain on the approach will prevent AI landing in FS2002, but bearing in mind what else you can do with the AI system, this is a small price to pay. Tough though if your 'favourite' airport is the one that's affected. They got round the problem in FS2004 - by just making the planes fly through the mountains and out the other side to land. Hardly perfect but one day they'll find out how to make it work properly.

In the meantime, first thing you need to understand - tweaking AI is more of an art than a science. You can't just make flightplans for any aircraft, especially third-party add-ons, and expect them to work. And there's also much more to it than just AFCADing an airport and adding a few parking spaces.

The first key element is the plane's FDE (flight model). Very few add-on planes have an FDE that's suitable for AI. You know this when - you've guessed it - they fly on by, weave so much on the approach they often miss the runway, crash on approach or even on the descent several miles from the airfield, and so on.

Even some of the default FDEs are a bit dodgy - you watch the 777 suddenly swoop up just before it's supposed to flare and then hit the runway with an almighty thud. Main reason - M$ made its approach too fast.

Look at the default 737 as well. I had to do a lot of work on it in 2002 to make it land at Aberdeen Dyce (UK) - reason again, approach programmed much too fast.

And take a look at many of the early PAI models (esp 757s, Airbuses) - Airbuses porpoise like crazy in flight, 757s are in a constant state of nose-up free-fall and so on.

The next one is the flight plans themselves. Remember one key thing - they bear hardly any relationship to real life. Altitude especially - if you use real life numbers more often than not you'll be too high and ..... the plane will fly right past its destination.

You get my drift. There ain't no formula that you just apply and sit back - which is why so many of us love it!

So the message is, if you want to do your own AI you have to have a modest knowledge of aerodynamic principles and the know-how to edit the cfg and air files.

A basic principle is that AI is all about appearances. Some of the geeks don't understand that and wonder why things don't work. You don't have to use a 777 FDE in an AI 777. If it works fine with the Learjet FDE then so be it, that's fine - you're only concerned that it shows up, flies, lands and parks as it should do. So you often have to experiment and swap stuff around.

And you invariably find that no matter how long Messrs POSKY, Meljet and the rest have spent on the FDEs in their flyable planes, the chance is they will be MUCH better as AI if you drop the FDEs from the respective default planes in instead.

Even so, some guys around here do it the easy way and just go get payware AI packages. Personally I don't. It's a hobby - I like to do it all myself. It's also a big part of the fun I get out of the sim -  not just the flying bit, but that's me.

Sorry I can't be more helpful, but that's how it is and personally I wouldn't have it any other way. I've spent literally hundreds of hours solving AI problems - Concorde and a taildragger before anyone else did them, in FS2004 fixed wings and helis off carriers in my still as yet unreleased carrier package and so on.

Anyway, I'd suggest that it would be easier for us to help if you posted specific problems - which aircraft, which airport etc because you can probably see from what I've said, generalities aren't of much use when it comes to AI.
 
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Reply #4 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 12:43am

ZOSO   Offline
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Thank you for the thoughtfull reply "Rollerball"! Yes, tweaking AI is more than a science....It is an art!...and yes addon aircrafts FDE's (which I have no idea yet how to switch) aren't suitable for AI. From trial and error and the great help I've recieved I've learned this in 1 day!. There's soooo much more to AI than TTools and AFCAD. I tried using my addon aircraft ( 9Hr's of work) experimenting to see what will and will not land at the Airport of my choice. For example: I tried landing an addon DC-9 and 737 to land at KCRW. It just flew on by. However I checked to see if it would land on it's return flight to KPHL and it did just fine. I figured the 5000ft runway at KCRW wasn't long enough (Who knows?). After that I tried more research and stumbled upon Project AI...to make a long story short: PAI aircraft land beautifully on KCRW's 5000ft+ runway. I'm glad to have stumbled upon PAI. It will make things much easier now. However, this presents a new problem (I'm not complaing by any means). I haven't yet found enough liveries and aircraft (commuters) that will suit me. I have faith that I will. With that said, I'd like to ask another question. Are ther more aircraft or liveries that are compatible with PAI? It seems they are limited in aircraft selection and especially limited with liveries. I'm not looking to change the world (pun intended) just my little slice of almost heaven around my part.
 
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Reply #5 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 1:29am

ZOSO   Offline
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One more thing: I may be new to the AFCAD and Ttools experience, but I am excited about the possibilities I only dreamed of before learning these. I think the FS community is a great thing and I'm most suprised by all the freeware and the folks who are willing to give time to help. Thank you! Words aren't enough. Perhaps I'll be able to help answer Q & A's sometime soon. Untill then, I'll keep asking only questions. So here they are:
1. My previous post asked about more aircraft selection and liveries pertaining to PAI. Any info?
2. How do I change an FDE for a certain aircraft using default aircraft (FS2K)? (please keep it simple-not a pro at the technical terminology-but I have eventually figured the terminolgy/techniques out in the past)
3. Are there suchs things as FS conventions? If so, Any in the Eastern part of the U.S.?
Thanks everyone!
 
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Reply #6 - Jan 25th, 2005 at 2:04am

ZOSO   Offline
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Correction: I kept saying FS2K. I meant to say FS 2002. Sorry about that folks.
 
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