Simviation Forum - Warbirds

Jan 11^th, 2005 at 10:12am

ozzy72 Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender:
Posts: 37122

Well I've sorted out my photos, done a little editing and here are some pics for you all Grin

One for Roger

One for all the Americans Wink

Another one for Roger Grin

Yet another one for Roger (this one is the pretender to the crown! Merlins rule!!!)

One for Brensec

And the last two for Björn

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #1 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 10:19am

HawkerTempest5 Offline
Colonel
Hawker Tempest MK V
United Kingdom

Gender:
Posts: 3149

Now there are some real aeroplanes Wink

And a proper Spitfire too Grin

Flying Legends

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #2 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 10:21am

ozzy72 Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender:
Posts: 37122

That is my signature picture Roger Roll Eyes

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #3 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 1:13pm

ATI 9700pro Ex Member

Good choice of birds for the last two... Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #4 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 1:30pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Good choice of birds for the last two... Grin

Do you know what the last one is? It's a tad unusual. Wink

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #5 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 1:32pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender:
Posts: 1000000627

Quote:

Do you know what the last one is? It's a tad unusual. Wink

Unless it's a French built example, it should be a FW-190 variant?

Felix/FFDS

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #6 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 1:47pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Unless it's a French built example, it should be a FW-190 variant?

Here's a shot I took from a different angle. http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/da-hen04-23.jpg

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #7 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 2:48pm

C Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144

Quote:

That is my signature picture Roger Roll Eyes

I was gonna say, I can't see a Mk V! Wink

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #8 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 3:52pm

Mr. Bones Offline
Colonel

Posts: 4304

Quote:

One for all the Americans Wink

and for me! I love the Mustang...and it's sound even more! Wink

Raw power...the J-58.&&&&&&My Anet collection.&&

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #9 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 4:09pm

ATI 9700pro Ex Member

Quote:

Here's a shot I took from a different angle. http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/da-hen04-23.jpg

Haven't seen one of those yet! Shocked

I've seen pics of a Bf-109T, but not of a Fw-190T.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #10 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 4:36pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL

Gender:
Posts: 1000000627

Quote:

Haven't seen one of those yet! Shocked

I've seen pics of a Bf-109T, but not of a Fw-190T.

Point of information - the 109T was the carrier variant of the 109E (strengthened u/c, tailhook etc.) which ended up being used in Norway.

I don't think there was a carrier version of the FW190..

Felix/FFDS

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #11 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 4:49pm

C Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144

Quote:

Haven't seen one of those yet! Shocked

I've seen pics of a Bf-109T, but not of a Fw-190T.

The "Bf109T" is the G-12, although there were also later Czech and Spanish 2 seat variants...

As for the 190, there appear to have been several 2 seat variants. I can't remeber the history behind how this one ended up in the UK...

Charlie

PS: Is that Fozzer I spy hanging on near the left wingtip of the Tempest... Wink

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #12 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 4:51pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Point of information - the 109T was the carrier variant of the 109E (strengthened u/c, tailhook etc.) which ended up being used in Norway.

Well, I'll go to the foot of our stairs. I never knew that. Shocked

Quote:

I don't think there was a carrier version of the FW190..

According to the RAF Museum website this one's a Fw190A-8/U-1. Here's what they say about it.
Quote:

Although the company manufactured a prototype two-seat Fw190 to help with the conversion of pilots from slower ground attack units, all the other two-seaters, like this one, were produced by modifying existing aircraft.

The canopy looks very basic, like it was cobbled up from a couple of Bf 109 canopies.

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #13 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 5:08pm

C Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144

Quote:

The canopy looks very basic, like it was cobbled up from a couple of Bf 109 canopies.

Or a couple of lengths of wood and a large sheet of perspex... (by a Blue Peter presenter)

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #14 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 5:50pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Or a couple of lengths of wood and a large sheet of perspex... (by a Blue Peter presenter)

Don't forget the sticky-backed plastic. Blue Peter definition of duct tape. Wink

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #15 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 6:00pm

C Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144

Quote:

Don't forget the sticky-backed plastic. Blue Peter definition of duct tape. Wink

I was going to single out Valerie Singleton to do the construction but I thought it might even be beyond here "here's one I made earlier" talents...

Maybe it'd be one for Peter Purves...

Charlie Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #16 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 6:20pm

ozzy72 Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender:
Posts: 37122

I couldn't spot any of Sheps hair Grin

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #17 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 6:22pm

eno Offline
Colonel
Why you shouldn't light
your farts!!
Derbyshire UK

Posts: 7802

There is a smell of Elephant dung though Lips Sealed

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #18 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 7:48pm

Flt.Lt.Andrew Ex Member

I may be a bit late here, but that Focke Wulf is a '45 variant, from Holland. Used in Stg 44 (i may be wrong)
it was used for dive bombing purposes.
I made a model of it last year, beautiful aircraft.

A.

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #19 - Jan 11^th, 2005 at 8:03pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

I may be a bit late here, but that Focke Wulf is a '45 variant, from Holland. Used in Stg 44 (i may be wrong)
it was used for dive bombing purposes.
I made a model of it last year, beautiful aircraft.

A.

Hi Andrew. Is your model a 2-seat "U1" variant? It says here that it was used as a trainer.http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avfw190.html
Quote:

The "FW-190A-5/U1" and "FW-190A-8/U1" were tandem-seat trainers, with only a small number produced, the first flying in January 1944. They were later redesignated "FW-190S-5" and "FW-190S-8" respectively. They featured twin canopies that opened to the side, and some of the S-8s had pyramidal side windows on the rear cockpit to give the back-seat instructor some forward view. One of the trainers has survived and is at the RAF museum at Hendon, England.

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #20 - Jan 14^th, 2005 at 3:07pm

Theis Offline
Colonel
Always somewhere, sometime..
Rødovre, Denmark

Gender:
Posts: 6116

is this really true???

LOL! Grin

Bar by Mees

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #21 - Jan 14^th, 2005 at 3:20pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

is this really true???

LOL! Grin

That's just Tony hanging around. Roll Eyes

Never know what he'll get up to next. Shocked

You need eyes in the back of your head with this lot. Grin

PS. Not really. Check out the Young Fozzer thread. Wink

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=photos;action=display;num=...

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #22 - Jan 14^th, 2005 at 5:05pm

Rifleman Offline
Colonel
" Full size A/C are just
overgrown models ! "
Tropical island in the Pacific

Posts: 6622

Any further angles of the Salamander ?......I've always liked the line of that wooden wonder.......

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #23 - Jan 14^th, 2005 at 5:38pm

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Any further angles of the Salamander ?......I've always liked the line of that wooden wonder.......

I have a very poor shot of it. I was too ashamed to post it. http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/da-hen04-24.jpg

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #24 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 12:30am

beaky Offline
Global Moderator
Uhhhh.... yup!
Newark, NJ USA

Gender:
Posts: 14187

Oooh... more WWII iron! Thanks for the Mustang, but some of us Yanks love the British birds as well (not to mention the German machines). And that other shot of the He-162 isn't all that bad... I think if it's something rare or unusual, we should overcome our editorial impulses and just show 'em, from whatever angle, so the curious can see more of the thing itself. I have some very bad photos of some weird stuff that I'm planning to post soon ("oh, no... here he goes again...")

What's the story with the "?-GA" markings on the Curtiss?

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #25 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 4:14am

ozzy72 Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender:
Posts: 37122

The P-40 is a bit of a mutant, its several 40s spliced together to make one aircraft, so the ? thing was meant to be a bit of a joke as nobody can say what its exact origins are Roll Eyes

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #26 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 4:25am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

What's the story with the "?-GA" markings on the Curtiss?

Glad you mentioned that. I did know the significance of the ? but I've forgotten. I looked carefully but there was no mention of it on the placards in the museum. I think it's the personal marking of a specific pilot but could be wrong about that. It represents a 112 Squadron aircraft in Desert Air Force colours & according to the Hendon website this example is a Kittyhawk IV (P-40N).

Maybe one of our historical gurus can elaborate. Charlie, Felix, Ozzy, Tempest.......?

PS. Found it. Quote:

The second thing is the use of the query punctuation mark as an individual aircraft ident marking; the use of such symbols and shapes (such as, eg, colons, semi-colons, and diamonds) was not unusual in Italy when a squadron had more than 26 aircraft on strength, and the use of "?" was the most common, even at times in the UK itself. Indeed, the "?" mark was often used to indicate the aircraft of the squadron commander, though not always so as in the case of this aircraft. Once again this is painted over the top of the serial number, FX740.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2000/03/stuff_eng_profile_112sqn2.htm

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #27 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 4:39am

ozzy72 Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender:
Posts: 37122

Doug on one of the placards it did say that it had this ID as it was a hotch-potch of other P-40s Wink

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #28 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 4:45am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Our posts crossed Mark. Check out my PS above.

Quote:

The second thing is the use of the query punctuation mark as an individual aircraft ident marking; the use of such symbols and shapes (such as, eg, colons, semi-colons, and diamonds) was not unusual in Italy when a squadron had more than 26 aircraft on strength, and the use of "?" was the most common, even at times in the UK itself. Indeed, the "?" mark was often used to indicate the aircraft of the squadron commander, though not always so as in the case of this aircraft. Once again this is painted over the top of the serial number, FX740. http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2000/03/stuff_eng_profile_112sqn2.htm

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #29 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 4:49am

ozzy72 Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender:
Posts: 37122

Whoops sorry Doug... Embarrassed

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #30 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 4:52am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Whoops sorry Doug... Embarrassed

Not your fault. I should have been quicker on the trigger. Wink

I've seen it before & always assumed the explanation in my quote to be correct.

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #31 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 4:57am

ozzy72 Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender:
Posts: 37122

Aye Doug, it was just in this case they used the ? marking as they couldn't prove the exact origins of the plane. It was on the placard facing the Hart if memory serves Wink

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #32 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 5:03am

Hagar Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159

Quote:

Aye Doug, it was just in this case they used the ? marking as they couldn't prove the exact origins of the plane. It was on the placard facing the Hart if memory serves Wink

I'm not sure about that. If it was written on the placard I must have missed it. Here's the full quote from the link I posted.

Curtiss Kittyhawk Mk. IV
112 Squadron, Royal Air Force
pilot: Sergeant G.F. Davis
Cutella, Italy, April 1944

Here is the Mk.IV Kittyhawk (P-40N) of 112 Sqn, as operated from April to June 1944 in Italy. The main colour scheme and markings are basically of the perfectly standard desert style finish, but with two things worthy of note. The upper surface camouflage colours are reversed on this aircraft, which probably indicates that it has been repainted from its original USAAF style of camouflage and hence the dark and light areas are where they should really be rather than the other way round as happened when Dark Earth/Dark Green aircraft simply had their green areas repainted with Mid Stone.

The second thing is the use of the query punctuation mark as an individual aircraft ident marking; the use of such symbols and shapes (such as, eg, colons, semi-colons, and diamonds) was not unusual in Italy when a squadron had more than 26 aircraft on strength, and the use of "?" was the most common, even at times in the UK itself. Indeed, the "?" mark was often used to indicate the aircraft of the squadron commander, though not always so as in the case of this aircraft. Once again this is painted over the top of the serial number, FX740.

This aircraft again also has British radio equipment with no wire ariels, just the mast behind the canopy and whip on the rear fuselage.

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery

Back to top

IP Logged

Reply #33 - Jan 15^th, 2005 at 11:05am

C Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144

The most famous case of the ? marking was with 32Sqn. This was illustrated by David Penell's Spit IX MJ730 in the UK in the mid 90's carrying the codes GZ-?. The story behind this was that when OC 32Sqn was asked which letter he wanted, he replied that he was not sure. Hence, the next time he went to his aircraft, there was a "?", and from then on I think the aircraft was known as the "Sqn commanders query", or something like that...

The aircraft is now with Jerry Yagen in the US...

http://www.militaryairshows.net/spits/s96-730.jpg

Charlie

Back to top

IP Logged

	Search the archive: