Search the archive:
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
 
   
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
KLAX In Trouble (Read 621 times)
Jan 7th, 2005 at 10:02am

Enola Gay   Ex Member
Forza Lazio!!

Gender: male
*****
 
uh.....dont know wht to say Undecided
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perimeter and air patrols are being beefed up at Los Angeles International as defense against possible shoulder-fired missile attacks on commercial aircraft, a top security official said.

Security officials are undergoing training specific for that threat, and additional helicopter patrols are being deployed, John Miller, head of the Los Angeles Police Department's counterterrorism bureau, told Airports Friday. While air patrols would not be able to counter a launched missile strike, they could give officials an important vantage point over the adjacent waterfront.

And, Miller added, if an attack were launched several miles away, an air patrol could trace the contrails back to the assailants.

"This is something terrorists are already trying," Miller said.

Miller noted that shoulder-fired missiles have been used against commercial flights in recent years, most recently against a cargo plane at Baghdad International. About 20,000 shoulder-fired missiles are on the black market, and no one knows how many could have been smuggled into the U.S., he said.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill recognize the threat and included a provision in the intelligence reform bill to press the President to use diplomacy to limit proliferation. They also called on FAA to expedite airworthiness certification for aircraft defense systems. President Bush signed the bill into law last week.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
kinda scary,
ashar
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - Jan 7th, 2005 at 10:19am

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
I find it more scarey that they think its best to just catch these guys rather than find ways to stop them altogether. Lets face it, they dont care what happens to them after they have completed their task, i would guess if they thought they would be caught then they would just kill themselves anyway.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - Jan 7th, 2005 at 3:16pm

beefhole   Offline
Colonel
common' yigs!
Philadelphia

Gender: male
Posts: 4466
*****
 
They HAVE been stopping them altogether-why do you think there haven't been any major terroritst attacks on US soil since 9/11?  Because, every day, things we never hear about occur over sees-and even here occasionally. A news story about SEALs who sunk a ship full of weapons grade uranium (I think it's uranium-point is it's dangerous) was leaked to someone, and Discovery made a documentary on it.  It is quite clear there are many more ops of this sort going on daily.  Sometimes, things fall through the cracks. One of the biggest ocncerns are weapons that were here before we beefed up security. Sure hope LAX is safe, my thoughts are it'll be fine, everything else has been a scare.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - Jan 7th, 2005 at 3:30pm

jrpilot   Offline
Colonel

Gender: male
Posts: 2255
*****
 
A little off topic but terroist are horrible....but sometimes if you give the media a inch they will sttetch it to a mile...for instance that uranium boat BEEFHOLE was talking about
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - Jan 7th, 2005 at 3:47pm

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
Beefhole, the simple fact is, there hasnt been anything major because no-one has tried. US airport security still has many holes, as demonstrated by the people riding a boat upto JFK and wandering the taxiways for quite a while, it was purely innocent in this case but had they been terrorists then you can imagine what could have happend. The same goes for the guy who left weapon like objects in the toilets of various southwest aircraft. The stories of people accidentally getting the banned objects onto planes. As for the stuff you dont hear about, i can assure you i have a very good idea whats going on, and i have heard many stories from my dad and cousin who both served/serve in the military that will never make it to the press. The US needs to stop trying to tell various international airports how to run security and perhaps ask those with much better experiance what they can do to improve US airport safety. EL AL is known to have the toughest security in the world for airports they need to follow their example, here in the UK we have been very strict on security for a long time. The US after 9/11 made some great strides in terminal security, but then they screwed it up big time by bringing in the TSA. Now they are giving airports the option of private companies again under the supervision of the government, this should help alot. As for the LAX problem, CCTV along the problem area with 24 hour surveilance, that will allow them to spot suspcious individuals, they can then send the airpatrol to the location to keep watch while ground police come to the area.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - Jan 7th, 2005 at 6:18pm

Ivan   Offline
Colonel
No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands

Gender: male
Posts: 6058
*****
 
Quote:
uh.....dont know wht to say Undecided
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perimeter and air patrols are being beefed up at Los Angeles International as defense against possible shoulder-fired missile attacks on commercial aircraft, a top security official said.

Security officials are undergoing training specific for that threat, and additional helicopter patrols are being deployed, John Miller, head of the Los Angeles Police Department's counterterrorism bureau, told Airports Friday. While air patrols would not be able to counter a launched missile strike, they could give officials an important vantage point over the adjacent waterfront.

And, Miller added, if an attack were launched several miles away, an air patrol could trace the contrails back to the assailants.

"This is something terrorists are already trying," Miller said.

Miller noted that shoulder-fired missiles have been used against commercial flights in recent years, most recently against a cargo plane at Baghdad International. About 20,000 shoulder-fired missiles are on the black market, and no one knows how many could have been smuggled into the U.S., he said.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill recognize the threat and included a provision in the intelligence reform bill to press the President to use diplomacy to limit proliferation. They also called on FAA to expedite airworthiness certification for aircraft defense systems. President Bush signed the bill into law last week.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
kinda scary,
ashar

air patrols? name me a helicopter that stands a chance against an modern (Igla-2 and the other new russian MANPAD toy) IR seeker warhead
 

Russian planes: IL-76 (all standard length ones),  Tu-154 and Il-62, Tu-134 and An-24RV&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found here
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - Jan 7th, 2005 at 11:27pm

beefhole   Offline
Colonel
common' yigs!
Philadelphia

Gender: male
Posts: 4466
*****
 
Quote:
Beefhole, the simple fact is, there hasnt been anything major because no-one has tried. US airport security still has many holes, as demonstrated by the people riding a boat upto JFK and wandering the taxiways for quite a while, it was purely innocent in this case but had they been terrorists then you can imagine what could have happend. The same goes for the guy who left weapon like objects in the toilets of various southwest aircraft. The stories of people accidentally getting the banned objects onto planes. As for the stuff you dont hear about, i can assure you i have a very good idea whats going on, and i have heard many stories from my dad and cousin who both served/serve in the military that will never make it to the press. The US needs to stop trying to tell various international airports how to run security and perhaps ask those with much better experiance what they can do to improve US airport safety. EL AL is known to have the toughest security in the world for airports they need to follow their example, here in the UK we have been very strict on security for a long time. The US after 9/11 made some great strides in terminal security, but then they screwed it up big time by bringing in the TSA. Now they are giving airports the option of private companies again under the supervision of the government, this should help alot. As for the LAX problem, CCTV along the problem area with 24 hour surveilance, that will allow them to spot suspcious individuals, they can then send the airpatrol to the location to keep watch while ground police come to the area.

Damn dude, we can't cover everything... all I know is everything has been a scare up tot this point and anything that is truly, truly incredibly serious will be dealt with. Done.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - Jan 8th, 2005 at 4:50am

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
I know that its impossible to cover everything, and i agree that its been a scare upto this point. But what i am trying to say is, if your going to scare the public with this sort of information, you have to do more than say, "we'll catch them asap"
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - Jan 8th, 2005 at 5:07am

Hagar   Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159
*****
 
I think it should be obvious to anyone with a little sense that an airliner is highly vulnerable to a modern heat seeking missile fired from a hand-held launcher. It makes an ideal target & the missile could be fired from miles around every airport in any country in the world. How can you possibly cover every single one?

I've seen plenty of ideal spots around Heathrow & Gatwick & I'm sure both the terrorists & security services are well aware of this. Heck, airliners fly over here regularly, well within range of a missile & the nearest big airport (Gatwick) is over 30 miles away. I could fire a missile from my back garden & be miles away before anyone found out where it came from. I realised this years ago so I can't think what all this latest paranoia is about.

I'm all for security & vigilance but being a photographer myself I can just see some innocent cameraman with a long zoom lens being mistaken for a terrorist & possibly shot for taking photos of an aircraft. I think this is just another example of overkill (pun not intended) to fool the public that something is being done.
 

...

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - Jan 8th, 2005 at 10:37am

chomp_rock   Offline
Colonel
I must confess, I was
born at a very early
age.

Gender: male
Posts: 2718
*****
 
Quote:
I'm all for security & vigilance but being a photographer myself I can just see some innocent cameraman with a long zoom lens being mistaken for a terrorist & possibly shot for taking photos of an aircraft. I think this is just another example of overkill (pun not intended) to fool the public that something is being done.


I know what you're talking about, I have been rudely dismissed from international airports many times because I'm taking pictures with my 600mm lens which is usually on a tripod...
 

AMD Athlon 64 3700+&&GeForce FX5200 256Mb&&1GB DDR400 DC&&Seagate 500Gb SATA-300 HDD&&Windows XP Professional X64 Edition
&&&&That's right, I'm now using an AMD! I decided to give them another try and they kicked the pants off of my P4 3.4!
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - Jan 8th, 2005 at 5:49pm

Enola Gay   Ex Member
Forza Lazio!!

Gender: male
*****
 
heat seeking missiles, that is even scarier, Shocked
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - Jan 8th, 2005 at 6:19pm

Hagar   Offline
Colonel
My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica

Posts: 33159
*****
 
Quote:
heat seeking missiles, that is even scarier, Shocked

I have no wish to scare you but this is the most obvious method. They're not likely to use blunderbusses. It's been done successfully before on several occasions, some long before 9/11. In reality the terrorists have have achieved the desired result without doing anything or putting themselves at risk. They might be fanatical but they're not stupid. If you wanted to attempt to bring down down an airliner would you position yourself anywhere near a heavily guarded airport? I think not. Roll Eyes
 

...

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group

Need help? Try Grumpy's Lair

My photo gallery
IP Logged
 
Reply #12 - Jan 9th, 2005 at 6:13am

Enola Gay   Ex Member
Forza Lazio!!

Gender: male
*****
 
yeah it think ur rite Doug 8)
it makes sense not to use heat seeking missiles near a guarded airport Smiley
« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2005 at 2:17pm by Hai Perso Coyone? »  
IP Logged
 
Reply #13 - Jan 9th, 2005 at 6:20pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England

Gender: male
Posts: 12574
*****
 
Quote:
EL AL is known to have the toughest security in the world for airports they need to follow their example.

El Al and their hugh security levels basically prove to us that no matter how good security is Terrorists can still achive their aims. El Al have had Skymarshals for example since almost their creation. But they still had aircraft hijacked.

And if any terrorist is going to try and shoot down an airliner, they would most probably be using one of the Stinger missiles America sold to the taliban in the 80's. And you don't need to be close to an airport to use one of those.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
IP Logged
 
Reply #14 - Jan 9th, 2005 at 6:25pm

Craig.   Offline
Colonel
Birmingham

Gender: male
Posts: 18590
*****
 
well a prime example would be, when i lived in Bristol, the fields i used to go running in, were right under the flight path for the airport the planes would be 15 miles out but at barely 2000 feet. The area was largely away from anywhere and a person could take out a plane with a missile and escape without anyone ever seeing them.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print