Simviation Forum - cfs3 or PF

Reply #210 - Mar 4^th, 2005 at 2:13pm

Beery1 Offline
Major
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 4

Quote:

...If that's how Oleg likes to fudge the aircraft controls, you got to wonder what else he is fudging.

Exactly right, and the answer is 'a lot'. I don't understand why so many people are fooled by pretty graphics into thinking that IL-2 is a great sim. When you get past those pretty visuals, what you're left with is not much of a simulation.

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Reply #211 - Mar 4^th, 2005 at 3:02pm

Plumps Offline
Lieutenant Colonel
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Posts: 7

Lol, people are fooled to believe they like PF. Shocked

What an arrogant statement.

So PF is not what you think a simulation should be. That's fine. It's an opinion, everybody has one.

But you seem to think that your opinion is special, do you? Please show a little respect for the lots of people who don't agree with you.

Cool down and spend your time with your ideal sim, whatever it may be.

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Reply #212 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 1:02am

Bearcat99 Offline
Colonel
IMMERSION BABY!!!
Northern Virginia

Posts: 10

Quote:

Exactly right, and the answer is 'a lot'. I don't understand why so many people are fooled by pretty graphics into thinking that IL-2 is a great sim. When you get past those pretty visuals, what you're left with is not much of a simulation.

ROFLMAO!!!! Grin

Believe me it isnt just the graphics.

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Reply #213 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 4:13am

GOZR Offline
1st Lieutenant
All for One and One for
All
USA, California

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I DO FLY THE YAK 9U in real life ask me what i think about CFS3 but i think you will not like the answer.

ABout this? it cannot be more clear...

Now lets talk about CSF4 maybe? SO what new? game engine? what graphics and physics are we going to see in it.?

-GOZR

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Reply #214 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 6:43am

bzhyoyo Offline
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Breizh atao feal!
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Those who go on comparing cfs3 STOCK with FB completely miss the point IMO. Just as pointles as comparing cfs3 to the original IL2.

If you think it's too much hassle to download and install things (you're not obliged to try/install EVERYTHING), there are only about 5/6 must have to improve the environment of cfs3. How many skins, speech packs, etc... have FB users downloaded and found it an hassle?
Now if you complain about having new planes, new ships, etc... That's another matter. But MAW and OFF will satisfy these one click-install people.

Anyway, some people have obviously spent so little time with cfs3 that I don't know how they can have an opinion about it - "I flew it for 3 hours, it was rubbish" - just carricaturing slightly.

Won't give an opinion on FB/FP : I simply don't have it, don't plan to have it (having fun playing and designing for cfs3 takes enough of my time). But I'm quite interested in what Maddox will come up with BoB.

final thing : if you have time, enjoy both. If you prefer online play, choose FB. If you like to tinker, create, mod things, cfs3 is the best.
Bottom line : have fun, that's what these games are for.

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Reply #215 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 3:48am

IndioBlack Offline
Colonel
Fox-Four

Posts: 266

Quote:

"because it does not support the Quad Throttle directly"

so you admit it does? how much you wanna bet multiple engine control will be implimented natively in BOB, true that's not what we're flying right now but oleg doesn't have time to fix everything you want fixed in this soon to be obselete game, especially since it works, why would he waste his time?

I see some Olegian illogic in your posting here. You see only the part you want to see. Note how you missed the negative part of my statement: "does not support".

Let's compare a simple taxying situation involving a four-engine aircraft in both Sims: In order to taxy to the right, you need to increase the throttle on engine 2 whilst decreasing the throttle on engine 3. This is how you do it in IL-2/PF
1. Deselect all other engines
2. Select engine 2
3. Press the throttle increase key
4. Deselect engine 2
5. Select engine 3
6. Press the throttle decrease key
7. Deselect all engines

In CFS3, the procedure is:

1. Push engine 2 throttle lever forwards whilst simultaneously pulling engine 3 throttle lever back.

I bet a million squillion that Oleg doesn't implement multiple engine throttle control in BOB, because I'd love to be proved wrong.

And thanks for telling us all that PACIFIC FIGHTERS is a "soon to be obsolete game", especially as it's only been out for three months. Perhaps that's why it's been reduced from £29.99 to £9.99. Fortunately CFS2 and CFS3 are still going strong. That's because Microsoft were smart enough to give us open-architecture, and the fans were smart enough to make use of it.

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Reply #216 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 10:16am

S-8 Offline
1st Lieutenant
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 2

Quote:

I see some Olegian illogic in your posting here. You see only the part you want to see. Note how you missed the negative part of my statement: "does not support".

Let's compare a simple taxying situation involving a four-engine aircraft in both Sims: In order to taxy to the right, you need to increase the throttle on engine 2 whilst decreasing the throttle on engine 3. This is how you do it in IL-2/PF
1. Deselect all other engines
2. Select engine 2
3. Press the throttle increase key
4. Deselect engine 2
5. Select engine 3
6. Press the throttle decrease key
7. Deselect all engine

You can do that or,an easier way,just press b (as in brake) with correspondin rudder input.Act as differential brakes.

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Reply #217 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 10:43am

AvHistory Offline
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Kinder & Gentler
NC, USA

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Posts: 577

Quote:

You can do that or,an easier way,just press b (as in brake) with correspondin rudder input.Act as differential brakes.

Or you can in CFS3 use actual differential braking, no rudder input required, with the < - > keys to hit the left or right brake individually. If you have a good set of rudder pedals with toe braking capability you can just push the top of each pedal down to get the required result. The B key or both toe brakes down will engage the normal brakes.

BTW on the narrow taxiways & hard stands the heavies generally used engine power to assist turning along with differential braking.

Additionally, easy to use fully adjustable engine power is very useful in taking off in a crosswind Wink

BEAR

BEAR&&http://www.avhistory.org&&http://www.medairwar.com

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Reply #218 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 11:05am

IndioBlack Offline
Colonel
Fox-Four

Posts: 266

You don't taxy large Bombers like the B-17 with wheel brakes, because you don't want to wear out the tyres. Neither do you use the rudder. You are recommended to use differential throttle.
So if you want realism, it's less complicated to Taxy in CFS2/CFS3 than in IL2/PACIFIC FIGHTERS, as I demonstrated above.

However, if you are in a smaller aircraft where toe brakes are recommended, IL2 doesn't support that either - thanks for reminding me AvHistory. 8)

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Reply #219 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 1:53pm

AvHistory Offline
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NC, USA

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Posts: 577

Quote:

You don't taxy large Bombers like the B-17 with wheel brakes, because you don't want to wear out the tyres.

I think you will find when they make right angle turns on the taxi-way, turning from the hold-short line onto the runway & pivoting around on the hardstand they used both differential braking & offside engine power.

BEAR

BEAR&&http://www.avhistory.org&&http://www.medairwar.com

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Reply #220 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 2:54pm

Plumps Offline
Lieutenant Colonel
I love Y'all

Posts: 7

Quote:

Let's compare a simple taxying situation involving a four-engine aircraft in both Sims: In order to taxy to the right, you need to increase the throttle on engine 2 whilst decreasing the throttle on engine 3. This is how you do it in IL-2/PF
1. Deselect all other engines
2. Select engine 2
3. Press the throttle increase key
4. Deselect engine 2
5. Select engine 3
6. Press the throttle decrease key
7. Deselect all engines

Another example of rantings about IL-2 that are based on incorrect information.

With a conventional joystick with throttle all you need to do is:

- "Select right engines", move throttle lever back.
- "Select left engines", move throttle lever forward.

Once you're in the correct position just hit "Select all engines" to go straight again.

It slightly differs from the real thing but it works without a 200$ CH Throttle Quadrant.

Quote:

I bet a million squillion that Oleg doesn't implement multiple engine throttle control in BOB, because I'd love to be proved wrong.

It has been announced long ago that it will be implemented.

Quote:

And thanks for telling us all that PACIFIC FIGHTERS is a "soon to be obsolete game", especially as it's only been out for three months. Perhaps that's why it's been reduced from £29.99 to £9.99. Fortunately CFS2 and CFS3 are still going strong. That's because Microsoft were smart enough to give us open-architecture, and the fans were smart enough to make use of it.

I don't think that PF will soon be obsolete. It won't be anyway before the release of BOB, and that won't be too soon. Even then FB/PF will have it's place as it covers so many fronts and flyable aircraft, while the first release of BOB won't contain more than a few flyable types from the same period.

Yes, open architecture can be a good thing. The offline aspect of IL-2 is kept alive by many 3rd-party mission and campaign builders (like myself) who bring alive the vast possibilities offered within the extensive set of maps and aircraft that we got since IL-2 was first released back in 2001.

Of course most of the popular online missions that are flown and online wars that are fought (~1000 FB/PF players in Hyperlobby at this moment) are created by creative members of the IL-2 community as well, while nobody has to worry about the incompatibilities caused by open aircraft/map architecture.

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Reply #221 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 2:56pm

IndioBlack Offline
Colonel
Fox-Four

Posts: 266

I guess you've been reading your B-17 Pilot's Manual, then?

I've always paid attention to the note that says: "Use brakes only to slow down or stop the aeroplane, or to aid in making turns when necessary"

So whilst I am sure that in certain "necessary" situations you may well use differential brakes, the main message I get is to use the throttles for taxying. This is because even slight pressure on the brakes will result in brake heating and eventual brake failure - something you don't want when you're coming in to land.

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Reply #222 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 3:18pm

IndioBlack Offline
Colonel
Fox-Four

Posts: 266

Quote:

Another example of rantings about IL-2 that are based on incorrect information.

With a conventional joystick with throttle all you need to do is:

- "Select right engines", move throttle lever back.
- "Select left engines", move throttle lever forward.

Once you're in the correct position just hit "Select all engines" to go straight again.

It slightly differs from the real thing but it works without a 200$ CH Throttle Quadrant.

If you "Select right engines", you'll be selecting 3 and 4, not just 3 as I did in my example. And if you select left engines, you'll be getting both 1 and 2, not just 2 as I did.
Plus, you always have to remember to deselect all engines after a throttle manouevre so that you don't accidentally move the wrong throttle next time you try to do something.
And even if we take your simplified example, you're still doing 4 manouvres to my one.
I used to fly IL-2, so I do not lack information about its shortcomings, and I have not yet begun to rant.

Anyway, thanks for telling me that Oleg will be implementing multi-throttles in BoB. I had not heard that announcement. I'd been too busy on various boards asking why he wasn't doing it, and obviously wasn't on the right one to hear the news. Not that I'll necessarily be buying BoB, but at least I know not to waste £9.99 on PACIFIC FIGHTERS because Oleg has basically abandoned it and won't be patching it for multi-throttles.

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Reply #223 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 3:52pm

AB_Mormac Offline
1st Lieutenant
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 2

could someone tell me why multi-throttles are so important.

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Reply #224 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 4:14pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England

Gender:
Posts: 12574

Quote:

I guess you've been reading your B-17 Pilot's Manual, then?

I've always paid attention to the note that says: "Use brakes only to slow down or stop the aeroplane, or to aid in making turns when necessary"

So whilst I am sure that in certain "necessary" situations you may well use differential brakes, the main message I get is to use the throttles for taxying. This is because even slight pressure on the brakes will result in brake heating and eventual brake failure - something you don't want when you're coming in to land.

As a man you should know that manuals contain no more than "suggestions" to how you may want to use your new aeroplane. You can brake to turn a B17 if you want to. Grin

Quote:

could someone tell me why multi-throttles are so important.

If you have more than one engine on your plane you might just want to control the engines independently. Therefore, multi-throttles. Grin

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!

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