Regardless of accuracy or whether the raids were 'military' targetted raids gone awry. It doesn't matter. One or two bad decisions, whether intentional or not cannot be compared to planned 'systematic' murder, terror and destruction of an entire continent for 5 years!

Andrew, as for the distinction between Nazis and Germans. I made the destinction in a codicil to my post (only because I do believe there were at least some people who did not know of the atrocities and who did not actively take part in the usual Nazi type activities).

But take a look at the percentages of vote that the Nazi Party received from the German people in the Thirties! Such high percentages of a vote are pure 'fantasy' to a politician these days (when less than 50% is usually the winners share).

Also, lingering in the same area for a second, I cannot believe that a concentration camp can exist for 3 years, less than two miles from a town of 5000 people, without ANYONE knowing. Especially when the chimneys can be seen from the town, when the trains always seem to go in full but only ever come out empty. Where the stench was horrific for miles before the Allies arrived (but they didn't initially know what it was) and when the guards who work there go home to their families in the town each night!!

I'm sorry. It's impossible! But still, I give the German people as a whole, the benefit of the doubt and understand that 'fear' after they may have realised what had been happening would have been terrible. But, I'm sorry, I don't think , in all fairness, the people of the day (as opposed to todays Germans) can really pretend to be uptight about a couple of air-raids. Nor can the Japanese.

Look, there was one family who went to see the concentration camps after the war finished.
They didnt know.
They went home and hung themselves in shame. now, they voted for Hitler in 1933...but I dont think they voted to exterminate the Jews.

A.

I understand why people would have voted for the Nazis in '33. There really wasn't a viable alternative anyway. (Have a read of "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" if you're up to it. A lot of politcal 'lead-up' info - but it is a daunting read).

There is certainly no doubt that Hitler and his government put Germany back on it's feet and made it a far better place to live in and gave her people 'dignity' and purpose again. If only he had just left it at that, he would still be a hero in the eyes of many, including other nations (even though much of what he achieved was due to totally ignoring the Treaty of Verseilles, but that was, IMO a big mistake anyway).

These things had to be stopped and they had to be stopped as soon as possible. And they were. I don't think the methods used to try and stop such horrors as early as possible can be criticised, especially by the Nation who was (be it knowingly or not) responsible for commiting them. 

Mahatma Ghandi and Winston Churchill gave praise to him, but I think his later deeds carried GroB Deutschland idea a lil bit too far...

A.

Quote:

This is the whole point. I don't think that anyone who wasn't there could possibly understand what restoring national pride meant to the average German. The hated Treaty of Versailles was a compromise that was possibly the major cause of WWII. It was more an act of revenge & punishment than a peace settlement & Germany was given no choice. Sign the treaty or be invaded by the Allies. The effect on the economy was so devastating it led to the rise of National Socialism. If it hadn't been Hitler & the Nazis it would have been someone else.

Many people in Europe including important politicians admired Hitler & what he was doing for his country. They might not have known about the terrible things going on but even if they did it might not have made any difference. WWII was not fought to save the Jewish people or anyone else suffering under the Nazi regime. It was declared as a result of Germany invading Poland after all negotiations & diplomacy had failed.

It's very easy to moralise after the event. Many terrible things have been done by my own country which I'm not proud of. One small example: Britain invented the "concentration camp" during the Boer War & many thousands died in them, including women & children. I'm ashamed to admit it & deeply regret it happened but I can't be held responsible for anything done by my ancestors & refuse to apologise for it. By accepting the awful truth I would hope to prevent anything like it happening again. This is by no means certain as the ordinary citizen has very little power to change anything, especially in wartime.

Meanwhile, dictators in many parts of the world treat their own people in a similar, if not worse, manner. The world sits back, wrings its hands & does nothing.

very true, though I'm pleased to say my colony hasnt done anything on the scale of Europe....

A.

There is no country out there that hasn't got blood on its hands - more or less.