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Owning a warbird (Read 940 times)
Oct 2nd, 2004 at 8:42pm

randombeaner   Offline
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Just in case I get filthy rich one of these days... (hey I can always wish), and I find myself finally having the money to buy myself a MiG-15 and/or a P-47 (with invasion stripes of course) what are all the legal stuff on doing this.

First of all is it legal to own a warbird?

Do you have to get some type of special approval, or some way to get the gov to know you won't buy ammo for this thing?

Who can buy a warbird, do I have to be in the airforce and/or own a museum to buy one?

Is there any chance I will find someone to buy it from maybe a museum or something?

Will I have to get a special licence/training to fly one?

Thanks in advance.Im always curious about stuff like that. If I ever do buy one, I'll make shure to post some pictures. Grin
 

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Reply #1 - Oct 2nd, 2004 at 10:06pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Just in case I get filthy rich one of these days... (hey I can always wish), and I find myself finally having the money to buy myself a MiG-15 and/or a P-47 (with invasion stripes of course) what are all the legal stuff on doing this.


Quote:
First of all is it legal to own a warbird?

Yes.

Quote:
Do you have to get some type of special approval, or some way to get the gov to know you won't buy ammo for this thing?

These days, yes.  Especially the more modern types need import licensing and verification.

Quote:
Who can buy a warbird, do I have to be in the airforce and/or own a museum to buy one?


How much money do you have?  Kermit Weeks' Spitfire is worth about US1.4Million ...

Quote:
e any chance I will find someone to buy it from maybe a museum or something?

How much money do you have?  What do you want to trade that would interest the buyer ...  for that matter, why don't you build a replica?  (caveat emptor)


Quote:
have to get a special licence/training to fly one?
In the US, I don't think you need a "special" license; I believe that you do in the UK,  At any rate, don't expect to get your PPL and jump into a P-51 Mustang without proper training and type certification.

Quote:
Thanks in advance.Im always curious about stuff like that. If I ever do buy one, I'll make shure to post some pictures. Grin

If you're serious about it, consider starting off with one of the many kitplane warbird replicas.  A few are full size, some are 3/4 size.

Mig-17s are relatively cheap (all things considered).  There's a fellow that has a DH Vampire parked in Kissimmee, FL, and flys it about once or twice a year... at $500/hr, overall, it's not cheap to fly (not that it can fly the full hour anyway)

You could go into a partnership and restore a warbird Smiley
 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #2 - Oct 2nd, 2004 at 10:31pm

randombeaner   Offline
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thanks for the response good Idea, I've always wanted to have my own aircraft company, I could rebuild and make aircraft.. first things first I got to finish my high school, and play the lottery Grin!

hmm the MiG-17 sounds nice, I'll take it!
 

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Reply #3 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 4:19am

Craig.   Offline
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speak to ozzy he is in the process of buillding his own
 
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Reply #4 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 4:47am

Hagar   Offline
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Some companies specialise in warbird restoration. In some cases these are complete rebuilds, virtually brand-new aircraft. The late Charles Church once told me if I could find a genuine Spitfire ident plate he could build me a Spitfire to attach it to. Of course, I would also have to part with lots of cash to make it worth his while.

If you have enough money you could buy a warbird, jump straight in it & fly it (or try to). This would obviously not be a good idea unless you were already familiar with the type. Many companies specialise in conversion training. Check out the Aircraft Restoration Company. http://www.arc-duxford.co.uk/
This is owned & run by the well-known restorer & display pilot John Romain. When the Spitfire Tr.9 trainer is ready he will be able to offer proper conversion courses on the Spitfire. Most owners of these warbirds are not only wealthy but also experienced pilots. I know some who own more than one. They like to display them & have display licences themselves.

PS. As the regulations stand, privately owned jets with afterburners are not allowed to fly in the UK. This is the reason for a beautiful MiG 21 being tucked away in a shed at Coventry Airport instead of part of the UK warbird display scene.
 

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Reply #5 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 8:30am

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Replicas are definately an option, and you can get the performance and looks for a lot less money, and also cheaper insurance and running costs. Also if you've built it yourself you'll know how to fix it if things go wrong Grin
I'm working on a Marcel Jurca MJ100 (although its on hold at the moment due to a baby, so I spend time working with father-in-law on his Cub replica which we're just starting).
As for second hand Soviet jets, yes you can buy them, but running them is terrifyingly expensive, not to mention the problems of parts and people to maintain them, as a jet is a horribly complex machine, even the early ones. There is an excellent article on this in the Sept. issue of Aeroplane.
Really to run a jet you need wads of cash!!!

Mark

Ps. I spent over a year researching my options before making a decision... I still haven't sussed which engine to go for yet Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #6 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 1:03pm

randombeaner   Offline
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I would love to rebuild them and fly them at airshows... good stuff.

Just out of curiosity, how did you begin to build/rebuild Ac.
Did you start with a family bussiness, find a job at a restoration plant, or get some special training?

Im going to get a degree in aerospace Engineering, but any pointers on how to get started with this type of work?
 

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Reply #7 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 2:02pm

ozzy72   Offline
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I got started literally by accident, I was looking around to get flying again in an affordable way, but viewed microlights as death traps, and you won't get me in a glider either!
So by accident I discovered replica Spitfires, and eventually decided that I had to be realistic, I'm a big chap so I needed a full-sized model (and hell it would look much better 8)). So I started to learn all I could about home-building, got books, read websites etc.
Then forked out the dough, then father-in-law got interested and decided he'd really like a Cub, he is a retired engineer, and amazing at making things, so thats how it all begun. Now we're both in trouble with the womenfolk Grin
 

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Reply #8 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 2:48pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
Ps. I spent over a year researching my options before making a decision... I still haven't sussed which engine to go for yet Roll Eyes


There must be a few thousand Trabant engines around in Germany from which you can cobble out a complete engine... Smiley
 

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Reply #9 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 3:07pm

ozzy72   Offline
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I'd be better off with an elastic band Felix Grin Grin Grin
 

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Reply #10 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 3:54pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
I'd be better off with an elastic band Felix Grin Grin Grin


Or a hamster wheel... Grin  Wink

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Reply #11 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 3:58pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
Just out of curiosity, how did you begin to build/rebuild Ac.
Did you start with a family bussiness, find a job at a restoration plant, or get some special training?


Many people involved in this business start out as "hangar rats" - helping out at weekends at their local clubs etc. After that it can often be down to who you know - particularly in the warbird arena - being invited to fly someone's aeroplane somewhere down the line - of course if you own it this is easier...

Quote:
Im going to get a degree in aerospace Engineering, but any pointers on how to get started with this type of work?


Good luck with a degree - it's a good place to start - if you have somewhere local go and ask if there is anything you can do for them - even if its menial to start with you can only work upwards...

Charlie
 
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Reply #12 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 4:00pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
I got started literally by accident, I was looking around to get flying again in an affordable way, but viewed microlights as death traps, and you won't get me in a glider either!
So by accident I discovered replica Spitfires, and eventually decided that I had to be realistic, I'm a big chap so I needed a full-sized model (and hell it would look much better 8)). So I started to learn all I could about home-building, got books, read websites etc.

Sounds dodgy to me. Think I'd go for the microlight. Roll Eyes Tongue Wink
 

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Reply #13 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 4:14pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
Just out of curiosity, how did you begin to build/rebuild Ac.
Did you start with a family bussiness, find a job at a restoration plant, or get some special training?


Find yourself an aircraft that needs rebuilding and start rebuilding it learning as you go. Once you've done one then you can start up a business. Wink
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #14 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 4:34pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Many people involved in this business start out as "hangar rats" - helping out at weekends at their local clubs etc.

I started out as a "hangar rat" only I was called the "oily rag" in my day. Did everything from clean the aircraft, strap pupils in (nice job when the pupil was a young female) swing the props - to lighting the fire in the clubhouse & cleaning out the bog. You can't buy that sort of experience. Look at me now, a legend in my own lunchtime. 8) Roll Eyes Cheesy

Seriously, Charlie is right. A degree might be useful (in fact it seems you can't do much without one these days Roll Eyes ) but it's often a matter of who you know combined with a little luck.
 

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Reply #15 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 4:41pm

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http://www.kennoncovers.com/links/engines.html

Try here Mark...  BTW, how far along are you anyway?
 

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Reply #16 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 10:52pm

randombeaner   Offline
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I'll be getting the degree to be able to work hopefully at an aircraft company (theres a lot of big ones here in sothern California), or maybe even work at the Jet Propultion lab thats part of Cal-tech, but I would like to eventually work on a warbird as a side project and hopefully make it bigger.

There's a big restoration place called Planes of fame, "near" but its about a 1-2 hour drive from my house and still havent gone there, Its on my to do list.

Ive still got a while till I get to collage, but thanks for the heads up.

oh and 15-30 years from now if you see an idiot flying a Thunderbolt with a monkey suit in an airshow make shure to flick me off! Grin
 

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Reply #17 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 2:56am

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Thanks for the link Kevin, at the moment we've just got a few ribs for the Spit done.
The Cub will be finished quite a long time before methinks. We've decided on the engine, and we're starting work on the jig board to lay the fuselage frame out on.
Thank goodness my father-in-law knows all about making this kind of stuff, 'cos frankly my welding skills are a wee bit rusty Grin

Mark
 

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Reply #18 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 5:44am

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On the subject of warbirds apparently the BBMF Spit V nose over on landing at Coningsby the other day (26th Sep, burst tyre was suspected)....

Charlie
 
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Reply #19 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 9:25am

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What are you using for the engine?
 

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Reply #20 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 12:40pm

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VW air-cooled 1800cc modified for aviation use. Good strong engine putting out a comfortable amount of HP, and easy for parts Smiley
 

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Reply #21 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 2:17pm

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Quote:
Thank goodness my father-in-law knows all about making this kind of stuff, 'cos frankly my welding skills are a wee bit rusty Grin

Mark

Rusty welding is never a good thing. I would get some WD40 onto it. Grin
 

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Reply #22 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 2:35pm

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Have you ever seen WD40 and a lighter? Well with welding kit the fireball should be quite impressive Grin
 

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Reply #23 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 2:54pm

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A Spit with a Volkswagon engine?  Shocked  Blasphemy!!
 

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Reply #24 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 7:49pm

randombeaner   Offline
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Quote:
Have you ever seen WD40 and a lighter? Well with welding kit the fireball should be quite impressive Grin


my friend tried it with a pvc pipe and some glue spray... I highly doubt he'll try that one again Grin, but with a welding kit.. hope you have good life insurance
 

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Reply #25 - Oct 5th, 2004 at 3:45am

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Kevin the Spit will be probably getting a V-12, I don't think VW made those did they? Grin
The Beetle lump will be appearing in the Cub, and I can't wait to get her flying, and I think mother-in-law will be glad to get us and the big pile of metal and wood out of the garage Grin
 

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Reply #26 - Oct 5th, 2004 at 9:25am

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Boy!  You had me scared there for a minute!  Wink
 

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Reply #27 - Oct 5th, 2004 at 2:59pm

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I know of only one German engined Spit, and that was a captured one during WWII fitted with an Me-109 lump Sad
I'm not a nationalist, but....... Grin
 

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