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Speaking of Merlins... (Read 1031 times)
Sep 22nd, 2004 at 7:07pm

Wing Nut   Offline
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So just for trivia's sake, when was the absolute first time a Merlin was fired up?
 
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Reply #1 - Sep 22nd, 2004 at 7:14pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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When Arthur pulled the sword out of the stone?
 
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Reply #2 - Sep 22nd, 2004 at 8:15pm

RichieB16   Offline
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Quote:
When Arthur pulled the sword out of the stone?

Interesting answer...althought probably correct.   Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #3 - Sep 22nd, 2004 at 9:33pm

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  When I was 16, in the back of my garage........Oh wait....you asked when was the first time a MERLIN was fired up?
 
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Reply #4 - Sep 23rd, 2004 at 5:21am

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Quote:
When Arthur pulled the sword out of the stone?

Very good. Wink

Quote:
When I was 16, in the back of my garage........

I don't wish to know that. Way too much information. Shocked Tongue

If we're talking aero engines I don't know when the very first Rolls-Royce Merlin was run. It first flew as the PV-12 (Private Venture 12 cylinder) on the front of a Hawker Hart biplane in 1935. http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Rolls-Royce%20Merlin

Another piece of useless information. Quote:
The first prototype (Versuchs 1 or V1) was completed by May 1935, but the German engines were not yet ready. In order to get the designs into the air, the RLM acquired four Rolls-Royce Kestrel VI engines by trading Rolls-Royce a Heinkel He 70 Blitz to test their engines on. Messerschmitt received two of these engines, and started work on adapting V1 to mount it. This work was completed in August, and V1 took its completed its early flight tests in September 1935. It was then sent to the Luftwaffe Test Center at Rechlin to take part in the contest.

The V1 referred to here is the prototype Bf 109. Meanwhile, the He 70 was used by Rolls-Royce as a testbed for the Merlin. Although it was a 7-seat airliner the He 70 held several speed records & was already faster than current fighters. Does this remind you of anything?
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Reply #5 - Sep 23rd, 2004 at 6:18pm
Steve-O   Ex Member

 
I'd say the Mosquito may have borrowed some design features. Or perhaps the He 111.
 
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Reply #6 - Sep 23rd, 2004 at 6:44pm

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That has alot of the features of an He111.

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Reply #7 - Sep 23rd, 2004 at 6:53pm

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I can't believe no one can give me a date on this... Tongue
 
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Reply #8 - Sep 23rd, 2004 at 6:57pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
I'd say the Mosquito may have borrowed some design features. Or perhaps the He 111.

The He 111 was certainly developed from the He 70. I was thinking more of a certain Supermarine design. It's difficult to imagine that R.J Mitchell & his design team were unaware of the Merlin-engined He 70 at Derby. It's quite possible he had a flight in it when the Merlin was being demonstrated. I'm not saying the Spitfire was a direct copy (as Ernst Heinkel believed) but the performance of that elliptical wing shape must have made an impression. It also had a very similar retractable undercarriage which was unusual at the time.

The He 70 was already one of the fastest civil aircraft in the world with the original 628 hp BMW engine. I can't imagine how it performed with a 1,000 hp Merlin up front.
 
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Reply #9 - Sep 23rd, 2004 at 8:10pm

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It kind of looks like a Spitfire on steroids!  Grin
 
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Reply #10 - Sep 23rd, 2004 at 9:21pm

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Quote:
I can't believe no one can give me a date on this... Tongue



April (possibly February), 1935 on a Hawker Hart ?
 
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Reply #11 - Sep 23rd, 2004 at 9:37pm

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I don't know, I'm asking...  Smiley
 
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Reply #12 - Sep 23rd, 2004 at 10:17pm
Steve-O   Ex Member

 
I couldn't find the exact date, but I did find some interesting info.

The Merlin was originally called the PV-12.
It recieved a name change when the Air Ministry agreed to finance it's development.
And it's first type test was passed in July of 1934.
 
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Reply #13 - Sep 24th, 2004 at 7:11am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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THe first reference I've seen to a "Merlin" (as opposed to calling it a type PV-12) flying is that indication of it being tested in a Hart.

The PV-12 was originally developed with an evaporative cooling system - useful probably for a racer, but when glycol<?> became available, the PV-12 was converted to this new cooling system.  It's hazy but I think this is about the time it started being called "Merlin"
 
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Reply #14 - Sep 24th, 2004 at 7:29am

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Quote:
when glycol<?> became available, the PV-12 was converted to this new cooling system

I think this is ethylene-glycol. Main source of supply from the US. Very effective as a paintstripper & incompatible with rubber insulation on electrical wiring. Spillage from the coolant tank directly above the main electrical loom led to a lot of maintenance problems on the Fairey Battle.

This reference keeps cropping up on searches & I can't find an exact date for the first test run on any web resource.
Quote:
Prototypes of the PV.12 were ready for test in October of 1933, funding up to this point having been provided by Rolls-Royce as private venture money (hence the PV prefix). The Government supplied subsequent development funding. Prototype development work on the Merlin B through to F led to a number of modifications, including changes to the cylinder head and cylinder block casting, as well as the cooling system. First flight of a Merlin took place in April (possibly Feb) 1935 aboard one of Rolls-Royce's flying test beds, a Hawker Hart. Both the Hawker Horsley and Fairey Battle were also used as flight test aircraft during the course of development.

Interestingly it doesn't mention the He 70 testbed.
 
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Reply #15 - Sep 24th, 2004 at 9:32am

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Quote:

By the end of the first year,1935 it was evident that with introduction of new and more powerful engine coming along,the slow biplanes with fixed undercarriage an the open cockpits,aircraft were becoming an embarrassment so Rolls Royce started to look around for a more suitable aircraft. To do this they had to go to Germany, where they found the ideal aircraft in the Heinkel He70. This was a very robust passenger carrying all metal aircraft which the German firm carried out the conversion. The aircraft was then flown back to Hucknall by Capt Sheperd on the 27th March 1936.

By the end of the first year,1935 it was evident that with introduction of new and more powerful engine coming along,the slow biplanes with fixed undercarriage an the open cockpits,aircraft were becoming an embarrassment so Rolls Royce started to look around for a more suitable aircraft. To do this they had to go to Germany, where they found the ideal aircraft in the Heinkel He70. This was a very robust passenger carrying all metal aircraft which the German firm carried out the conversion. The aircraft was then flown back to Hucknall by Capt Sheperd on the 27th March 1936.

 
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Reply #16 - Sep 25th, 2004 at 8:25am

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The gestation of the Merlin began with the famous R type engine of the Supermarine SG Schnieder Cup Seaplane racers in 1929.  Sir Henry Royce, about one year before his death in 1933, made a decision to develop a new engine using some of the experience of the Schneider Trophy winning 'R' engine. This new engine was initially known as the PV12 (private venture), and was entirely funded by Rolls-Royce up to that point. However, in 1933, the British Air Ministry agreed to finance the development of this engine, which was then termed the "Merlin."  Kiss
 
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