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Griffon or Merlin? (Read 2948 times)
Reply #30 - Oct 24th, 2004 at 3:24am

ozzy72   Offline
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There are two distinct Spitfire camps in Britain Kevin, HawkerTempest5 is firmly in the Quill camp and loves Griffon engined Spits.
The other camp is the Henshaw one, and that is where a number of us here reside....
And nope I've never heard of a Griffon being fitted to a P-51, could be err interesting Grin
 

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Reply #31 - Oct 24th, 2004 at 5:53am

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Quote:
Again I am forced to notice the difference in opinion lies along the line of country of origin.  Americans tend (not always) to like later models while Brits (again, not always) prefer the earlier.  I wonder how much of that is because the Spitfire is your own and the role is played in what really was Britain's finest hour.  I would say if that is the case, you have every right to be proud of the earlier Marks...   8)

This appears to be generally true although some Brits here like Tempest favour the clipped-wing Griffon-powered variants. To me the perfectly proportioned original Spitfire with that classic elliptical wing is my idea of what the Spitfire is all about. Vickers chief test pilot Mutt Summers is said to have remarked after the first-ever test flight of the prototype,  "It's perfect, don't change a thing".

I've mentioned before that almost everyone in this country can recognise a Spitfire & will stop what they're doing to watch it even if they have no interest in aviation. I think this goes much deeper than BoB history as many of the younger ones don't know the legend. The classic Spitfire has a unique grace & the engine sound is immediately recognisable, quite different to any other Merlin-engined aircraft like the Hurricane or P-51D. Catching sight of one in the air never fails to take my breath away. Clipped wings spoil that beautiful silhouette & make it difficult to immediately recognise from below. The only other similar instance I can think of is Concorde*, another exceptionally beautiful & graceful aircraft. Nobody could possibly mistake it for anything else.

Quote:
BTW, I am curious; Has anyone ever heard of a Griffon being fitted to a Mustang?

Strange you should mention that. The same thing had occurred to me. I'm sure it's been tried but I've never seen one. You know what those guys at Reno are like. Roll Eyes

*PS. Note it's Concorde, not The Concorde or Concord.

PPS. The Griffon-engined Spits have a charm all their own. To me this is more an impression of raw power rather than classic beauty. The original Spitfire always looked too frail & beautiful to be the effective war machine it was.
« Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2004 at 8:51am by Hagar »  

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Reply #32 - Oct 24th, 2004 at 8:10am

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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Quote:
Again I am forced to notice the difference in opinion lies along the line of country of origin.  Americans tend (not always) to like later models while Brits (again, not always) prefer the earlier.  I wonder how much of that is because the Spitfire is your own and the role is played in what really was Britain's finest hour.  I would say if that is the case, you have every right to be proud of the earlier Marks...   8)

Could the Americans love of the later marks be put down to their inane love of horsepower? Americans seem to love things that can go exceptionally fast in a straight line but have the turning circle of an oil tanker.  While us in England don't see speed as the most important factor but performance and looks count for a lot.

It's the same with cars. In america muscle cars are prefered above simple sports cars. However, in Europe people prefer cars with slightly smaller engines but far greater performance when it comes to changing direction.
 

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Reply #33 - Oct 24th, 2004 at 9:22am

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I think that's pretty much hit the nail on the head Woody.  Wink
 

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Reply #34 - Oct 24th, 2004 at 9:45am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Americans seem to love things that can go exceptionally fast in a straight line but have the turning circle of an oil tanker.

Wish I'd thought of that. It would have saved a lot of typing. Wink
 

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Reply #35 - Oct 24th, 2004 at 9:45am

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Quote:
BTW, I am curious; Has anyone ever heard of a Griffon being fitted to a Mustang?  Smiley

There was at least on Mustang fitted with a Griffon by the Reno boys. It was called World Jet but much more than that I don't know.
As for Spits, I grew up with the sight and sound of the old Rolls Royce MkXIV flying over my house from its base at Hucknall and so to me, the sound of the Griffon was the true sound of a Spitfire. These days I still see the Rolls Royce PR XIX flying over both my home and my place of work so you can see how I came to love these later types. I do think the Malcolm style hood looks better than the tear drop type hood.
 

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Reply #36 - Oct 29th, 2004 at 11:36pm
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
I don't understand...why wreck a lovely aeroplane with a bubble???


A.
 
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Reply #37 - Oct 30th, 2004 at 6:17am

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Because the bubble canopy offered better vision to the rear and flanks, which is where the Hun that would get you was most likely to be lurking...
I was always surprised that the 109 and 190 didn't get a bubble canopy...
 

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Reply #38 - Oct 30th, 2004 at 6:25am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
I was always surprised that the 109 and 190 didn't get a bubble canopy...

I think this was one area where the Allies were more advanced than the Germans. I believe the first practical one-piece "bubble" canopies were manufactured in England. Miles Aircraft was one of the pioneers with moulded plastics, including transparent "Perspex".

PS. The Fw 190 had a nice moulded canopy.
 

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Reply #39 - Nov 2nd, 2004 at 5:48am

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Hi Guys.
A 'newbie' here.

Having worked on both the 'Merlin' & 'Griffon' Spitfires while on the BBMF at Scampton in the RAF.

The Merlin is good but I think the Griffon is better.

But to me ...... THE MERLIN WILL ALWAYS SOUND BETTER!

IT IS ONE OF THE FEW SOUNDS THAT RAISES THE HAIRS ON MY ARMS AND THE BACK OF MY NECK...

Just a brief hearing of that wonderful engine can have me looking in the direction the noise came from.

The Griffon sound is to 'smooth'. It does not sound as POWERFUL as a Merlin.

Cheers.
 
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Reply #40 - Nov 2nd, 2004 at 10:21am

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Methinks that Ozzy has someone to get "in-depth" with on here now.......Griffons and Merlins ?  8)
 

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Reply #41 - Nov 6th, 2004 at 7:33am

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Quote:
I was always surprised that the 109 and 190 didn't get a bubble canopy...


May have something to do with the unique construction of the rear ruselage, and whether it would be strong enough in a cut down form.

Quote:
BTW, I am curious; Has anyone ever heard of a Griffon being fitted to a Mustang?   


There have been several I think, including the one that crashed at reno a few years back (1999) when the tail broke off (Miss Ashley II). There have been a few before too, one crashed (Red Baron) in the late 70's and nearly killed well known pilot and restorer Steve Hinton (thank god it didn't). Also there's "World Jet" which has already been mentioned...

Charlie
 
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Reply #42 - Dec 21st, 2004 at 7:31pm

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The "classic" Spitfire has to be the Merlin series. I know we "deviated" on the MkXVI but that was, as mentioned, a product of necessity.

I had exactly the same arguement when I started the YAS series, which is ONLY Merlin's. Only the Merlin's were SPITFIRES.........
 

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Reply #43 - Jan 19th, 2005 at 2:38pm
Straferr   Ex Member

 
I tried to get past these discussions, but the temptation got to me. I am voting for the Mk21 w/Griffon 2800hp; the Hawker Typhoon w/Napier-Sabre H-block 3200hp; and R. J. Mitchel would have produced the F21 ATF version of the F16XL.

Now, I am leaving before you guys start throwing things.
 
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