I recall some discussion months ago about the way in which the P51 came about as a 'replacement' for the then 'overcommitted' Curtiss plants.

Just quickly, the British, who were looking for P40's to supplement their Fighters were told that Curtiss could not make any more than were already being made. They were sent to North American to see if they could make the P40 under license (something done by almost everyone and involving almost every American aircraft during WWII).

North American said they could design a better fighter than the P40 and in 'record' time.

Looking at the prototype, which was produced in 102 days, I (and most) can see the obvious P40 influence in the design. Also the 'belly scoop' was a known Curtiss design.

Here is an excerpt about this particular 'speedy design feat':

Quote:




The P40 (although it held the line till the other fighters arrived), may not have been a 'great performer', but it gave birth to one!!!!  

I seem to remember discussing this at length in a previous thread. The designer of the P-51 always denied seeing the belly scoop data & it had several basic differences to the Curtiss design which made it successful. All designers worth their salt are aware of the latest work of their competitors & no doubt indirectly influenced by many things. This is not so much a direct copy, it's the way anything progresses. This is even more obvious now computers are involved. There's not a great deal of difference between vehicles designed for the same purpose by any of the major car manufacturers. Where one leads the others follow the trend. Whatever the truth of the matter, the P-51 turned out to be far superior to any variant of the P-40. Being a new design the P-51 was capable of future development while the P-40 was the last in a line of thoroughbreds, much like the difference between the Hurricane & Spitfire.

I've always thought that the Spitfire owed more to the Heinkel He 70 than the previous Supermarine seaplanes. This takes nothing away from the brilliance of RJ Mitchell. They might look similar but if it was that easy why didn't the Gunter brothers produce a Spitfire?

Agreed all. Everyone is right here (as there is really no 'wrong' in these discussions).  

I've seen that pic of the (P82) F82 a number of times. It apparently first flew in 1946. Too late for any WWII service. It was used as a long rang escort fighter for the B29, B36 and B50. It served in Korea I believe, among many other rolls (radar search plane, all-weather night fighter, photo recon etc)) although it was only ever made in very limited numbers compared to the P51.
With the advent of Jet aircraft, it was the last prop fighter ordered by the USAAF.

Personally, I think the extended fuselage (about 5' 8"), detracts alot from the beauty of the P51.

It has much more interesting history all of it's own. It still holds the longest (non-refueled) fighter flight record. Set in 1946 from Hawaii to New York. It was also responsible for the first 'air kill' in Korea (a Yak near Kimpo). The pilot, Lt William Hudson was hence, the first pilot to record a kill for the 'new' USAF.

P.S. I haven't seen this thing on the ground. Was it a 'tail dragger' or 'tricycle' geared plane?? (Although I can't see where a nose wheel could have been put, with the engine still in there??)

As for the 102 and 117 days, Rifle. I bow to superior knowledge. This particular writer did say 102, I'm sure, but with misprints, slip of the pen (or finger etc), it may have been unintentional on his part. Or he may just be a dope!! .

I'll find the source I used and post it here in a while, after I find it.


Here is the passage:
Quote:


From: http://www.flightjournal.com/plane_profiles/p-51_mustang/p-51_mustang_history.as...

I'm not saying this is correct. As I said, there are several reasons why this could be an 'unintentional' error.

Nice colour pic of the NA73 (with the "famous" P40 air scoop on the schnoz).

Hagar wrote:
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Too true. However, the issue with these two aircraft is not so much the fact that these 'common' developments can be simply a result of 'industry trends' and 'natural progression' in engineering thinking. Rather it has more to do with the fact that Curtiss were 'ordered' to handover their drawings and data on the new 'Fighter' to North American.

This has been confirmed by NA, but they have maintained over the years that they 'conveniently' didn't need to refer to this valuable material to come up with a design which has some very obvious developmental and physical similarities. The fact that they had the material already 'nutted' out for them, can't be denied. It has been too well documented.

Having said this, I'm not meaning to take anything away from the P51. I love the plane, (although I think of myself as more of a P51 purist in that I prefer, in almost every way, the P51B to the D and onwards).  Visability, I think, is the only real drawback in the B/C. And the British 'Malcolm' hood went a long way towards rectifying this.

I have also noticed that, while I'm on the visability subject, the 'new' NA73 has the two 'clear' rear quarter panels in the cockpit. A distinct feature of the P40. This is to me, a very obvious 'copying' of a better feature, which was not seen on previous or current NA planes (maybe???).

Incidentally, back to the original subject, if my dates and caculations are correct, the P51B (which also had the range to take the bombers to Germany), was also available at a time when it has been 'accepted' that there was no viable 'long range escort' for this job.
Is this a fact, or am I thinking the P51B (C/W Merlin) was not available in say........mid 1943 

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THe US purposely did NOT share its nuclear research (in case the UK "lost" the war.

It's interesting how this was applicable later on when the Japanese were/have been "accused" of copying/using US technology and "improving" upon it (and not merely consumer products).  Technology sharing agreements are usually more one-way than a two-way road.

I'm not sure what the issue here is, but I think we did decide that the Mustang WAS derived from the P-40, although all North American got was the wind tunnel tests for the Curtiss design. 

The picture of the side views are from the Squadron pub 'P-51 Mustang in Action' and is available in most hobby shops.