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ILS Landing (Read 494 times)
Aug 27th, 2004 at 7:04pm

ciuwilliam   Offline
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I have tried to do an ILS landing on several occasions. I turn the nav 1 frequency on and activate it, but when I select the approach heading mode the plane begains to fly around in circles. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong and what I need to do. Do I use the heading indicator?
 
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Reply #1 - Aug 27th, 2004 at 7:36pm

Nexus   Offline
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what's your NAV course?
Every localizer has front course, and you MUST tell the autopilot which course to track  Smiley
 
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Reply #2 - Aug 27th, 2004 at 9:26pm

Bruce   Offline
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I might be wrong please correct if i am. is'nt the course heading for the runway you intend to land is set just in case you have to do a miss approch you follow that heading untill atc gives you instruction. Probable i should but i rarely set the course heading whenever i am doing a ILS approch and i allways make it. i dont think ILS cares what the course heading you set so long you has the right ILS frequence into nav1. please correct me if i am wrong.
 
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Reply #3 - Aug 27th, 2004 at 9:55pm

Nexus   Offline
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I believe your right Bruce regarding the course...I'm snowed in in the 737 and it's nice warnings whenever the is a course disagreement between the localizer course and selected autopilot NAV course.
A localizer is obviously not omni-directional, it has only two courses (front and back)

Don't know what I was thinking really, shame on me  Embarrassed
It's 4am here now, maybe time for me to go to bed, don't ya think  Grin

But before I go; what ciuwilliam should be doing is to intercept the localiser with the course hold, and THEN engage the approach mode...just a  tiny piece of advice.

Smiley
 
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Reply #4 - Aug 27th, 2004 at 10:55pm

Bruce   Offline
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what i think ciuwilliam should be doing is to hold the heading direction, not the course, atc told him to untill he intercept the localizer then switch on the approch button. this is how i do it, it may or may not be right but it works for me all the time.
 
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Reply #5 - Aug 28th, 2004 at 7:07am

Nexus   Offline
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Course hold will track the localizer, heading select won't, so why use the heading, since course hold will automaticly align you with the localizer  ???
 
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Reply #6 - Aug 28th, 2004 at 8:46pm

Silver1SWA   Offline
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Is the plane you are trying to use default or an add-on?  Some add-ons have funky autopilots.  

Second, could you possibly be trying to use approach mode a bit too early?  You must capture the ILS first.  Typically you woud use the heading function to fly the heading instructed to you by ATC.  Then as you capture the localizer switch to approach mode so that the autopilot tracks it.  This is when having the proper runway heading/course dialed into your autopilot becomes beneficial.  It gives the proper visual reference in relation to the runway, and lets say you are flying a heading 30 degrees from the runway heading you will be able to visualize the situation.  Then, as the indicater begins to slide towards center, you know its time to switch to approach mode.

That's how I usually do it (when I (rarely) use the autopilot for assistance or unless I'm flying the PMDG 737 of course  Wink) and it seems to always work.
 

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Reply #7 - Aug 29th, 2004 at 1:57am

Robert_Bance   Offline
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Somewhere, you'll find plenty of tutorials for ILS landing.
Go to Google and make a search on "ILS landing".
In FS2004, only when you fly IFR, will you get ATC instructions as when to intercept the ILS. Let's say you heading for SFO ( San Francisco).  Look at the airport map, and click on green ILS indication, and note > ILS  frequency. ( 110.70 [I think]  and Course heading  282 for runway 28.. In you aircraft ( medium size for practice) set your NAV1 to ILS freq. and your course Heading to 282. Let say, as you are approaching 4000-ft out, you'll hear to morse ILS morse code. At this point,
the only items activated should be  Nav1,  APPR, and Autopilot. This will line you up with the runway, Your job is to control your speed  and rate of descent....Don't forget your wheels down, and flaps when appropriate. Aim to land +/- on the numbers
Good luck
Bob.*
 
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Reply #8 - Aug 29th, 2004 at 11:23am

Sameer   Offline
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Quote:
the only items activated should be  Nav1,  APPR, and Autopilot.


I think we should also enter the ILS Frequency into Nav2 and activate that as-well, and then we also enter the ADF code (eg. 350.0) and activate that as-well, and theres something like DTX or DMF which should be activated as-well. Am I right?

I have two questions:

1. How can we know that we have captured the localizer?

2. Do we enter the RWY course heading into the CRS or into HDG? And if we use CRS for APPR then do we desengage the HDG while APPR is on so it follows CRS and not HDG?

 
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Reply #9 - Aug 29th, 2004 at 12:44pm
Graycat8524   Ex Member

 
Heya Sam,

What Bob said about only having Nav 1, APPR, and the Autopilot activated for an ILS landing is correct.  You can use the Nav 2, ADF, and etc. if you wish, however, it's not that necessary.  If you have your Nav 1 set for the ILS your RMI needle will show the direction to the airport.  There's really no need to setup Nav 2 to the same ILS frequency since (if you flip your RMI to Nav 2) it will merely show you the same direction as Nav 1 does.

A GA pilot once told me that he sets his Nav 2 frequency to the closest neighboring VOR to the airport for two reasons.  

The first reason is that if you have a good picture in your mind of where the geographic location of the VOR 2 transmitter is located in relation to your destination airport you'll never get lost.  

The second reason is that if ATC vectors you way the heck and gone out there on a missed approach (and the ATC in FS 2004 has done that to me on several occasions) you may get beyond the ILS Nav 1 range, however, you can still get a pretty good idea of where your destination airport is by reading the VOR 2 needle on your RMI.

To answer your two questions:
[quote]1. How can we know that we have captured the localizer?[/quote]

On approach I watch my HSI gauge on my panel.  The big arrow will show whatever course you have dialed it to.  In the middle of the big arrow is a bar.  It will be offset to the left or right of the big arrow depending on where you are in relation to your destination runway.  When you see the middle bar start moving toward the center of the big arrow you know that you have "captured the localizer".

[quote]2. Do we enter the RWY course heading into the CRS or into HDG? And if we use CRS for APPR then do we desengage the HDG while APPR is on so it follows CRS and not HDG?[/quote]

What I do is lookup the destination runway heading during preflight either by using the FS 2004 Map or [url]http://www.airnav.com[/url].  Well out from approach (about 30-40 Miles) I'll set my autopilot course to match the runway heading.  Whenever you "capture the localizer" and click the APPR button on your autopilot the HDG should automatically disengage.  Once I've "captured the localizer" I [b]then[/b] change my heading to the same as the runway.

That way if I have to do a "go around" I just switch the autopilot back on, flip the heading switch, and I'm going the same direction as the runway.  
 
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Reply #10 - Aug 29th, 2004 at 3:11pm

Sameer   Offline
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Thanks for the information, Graycat8524. Smiley

btw I was just wondering how can you know that what RWY will the ATC assign you to land on? I don't seem to get anything like that on FS2004 Map.
 
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Reply #11 - Aug 29th, 2004 at 3:26pm

Silver1SWA   Offline
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Having the ILS frequency dialed into both NAV1 and NAV2 would be necessary when performing an auto-land.  Of course, the aircraft must have that capability.  

Some approaches require you to tune into the nearest VOR like described above.  For example, for the standard approach into SJC, when doing an ILS, you would dial the ILS freq into NAV1 and then dial the San Jose VOR in NAV2.  This is because SJC's ILS does not have DME so you use the VOR in NAV2 to get a DME reading so that you know how far or close you are to the airport.
 

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Reply #12 - Aug 29th, 2004 at 8:06pm
Graycat8524   Ex Member

 
Heya all,

An excellent point, Silver1SWA.  I forgot to mention that in my response.  Even if the nearest VOR to your destination airport is 2 or 3 miles from the airport you can still get a good idea of how far away you are from your destination.

As to your question Sam:

[quote]How can you know that what RWY will the ATC assign you to land on?[/quote]

A good question but unfortunately, you can't know beforehand.  As in real life the FS 2004 ATC will vector you into a runway according to prevailing wind conditions at your destination airport at the time of your landing approach.  If you don't have weather turned on in FS 2004 it seems like (to me) that FS 2004 will select a runway according to some pre-programmed formula.

In my previous reply I said that I use AirNav.com.  I use it a lot!  I've even gone as far as to create an "Airport Data" folder in my FS 2004 Main Folder.  Inside this folder I have many sub-folders according to US State (Arkansas, California, Texas, Wyoming, etc.).  Inside these folders I have created different html shortcuts for destination airports for AirNav.  During preflight I will select one of these airport webpages and leave the webpage running in the background during my flight.

That way when ATC vectors me to a runway during approach I can look up the runway information (along with its appropriate ILS frequency, etc.) on the webpage.

Now I know what some of you are saying.  "Yo, Dave!  That's cool, however, you can look up the same information on the FS 2004 Map View, or some hard-working people have come up with programs which will allow you to display webpages in FS 2004 using the Kneeboard!".  Well this is true, however, AirNav.com gives you a lot more information than the FS 2004 Map View.  As for the html Kneeboard programs I really think that they are great, but I really have no problem in pressing the "P" key to pause FS 2004 then Alt + Tab to pull up the background webpage.
 
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Reply #13 - Aug 30th, 2004 at 1:18am

elkinallen   Offline
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This is all very interisting to read. All of you are having a lot of fun. It is great!!!!  I love this crazy sim!!!

emergency ILS=:

1- Go straight for the middle of the airport by tracking an on field VOR or ADF.
2- As soon as you think you should, begin your outbound turn from the middle of the field by tracking the vor or LOC outbound. (if the navaid is on or near the middle of the field.) ( the outbound turn ='s the opposite direction of the runway, ILS runway, you intend to land on).
3- Go down to 2000 AGL and go out to 10 NM's.
4- Dial in the ILS freq.  and ID it.
5- turn the course indicator to the runway, ILS, heading.
6- At 10 miles, turn left about 45 degrees and go out for 1 minute.
7- Then, make a right turn 180 degrees and fly until you intercept the localizer.  Engage nav mode if you want.

BADA BOOOM!!!

That is the survival way to do it.  If there is markers, LOM, LMM etc., Even better.

If there is no navaid on the field. Use one that is as close by as you can get it and do the math.

The autopilot behaves very similar to the real thing. If you try and have the AP capture the course when the performance capability of the mechanism is,,, well, it will flail all over the place.

Any Q's  you can ask me.

Squawking 1200     C'YA!  

" Cleared for the BACKCOURSE with maximum penetration speed.  How long  do you intend to hold on top?  HA! HA!"
3-
 
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Reply #14 - Aug 30th, 2004 at 3:48pm
Graycat8524   Ex Member

 
That is completely hilarious, elkinallen!  I think that I'll try that later with a F-14 Tomcat.  That should be fun!
 
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