No I don't have the vertical tail section named rudder (so it doesn't animate but it is twisted to start with). I'm not sure what you mean by naming the parts on the verticies. Do you mean actualy naming specific verticies?

ok, I have had the same understanding of verticles and rudders as you. What has happend is all of the horizontal, elevator, the two verticles and the 2 rudders have been moved up above the fuselage as has the engines. Then the verticles are twisted so that they are npt perpendicular to the horizontal and not parrellel with the fuselage, but the verticles don't move ( they shouldn't and don't). The actual rudders are also twisted a bit and moved to the left and right, they also rotate along the wrong axis when I apply yaw. I have tried what you said about rotating the pivot point which does fix the yaw but it also rotates the actual rudder model (as in they are twisted in 3ds max and twists them even more in fs). I could send you the model but it is about 19mb.

I have sent you the file and incredably it compressed into about 2mb (I was impresed). Anyway, i hope you can figure out how I have skrewed it up. Thanks again.