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The Armada and the Turks... (Read 534 times)
Jun 1st, 2004 at 3:11pm

ozzy72   Offline
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For four centuries, Sir Francis Drake has symbolised English nonchalance and cunning in the face of danger. First, according to the legend drummed into every pupil, he insisted on finishing his game of bowls on Plymouth Hoe as the Spanish Armada approached in July 1588. Then he despatched the enemy ships with little more than a few burning rowing boats and a favourable breeze.
But yesterday, it was claimed that Elizabeth's protestant throne was saved by a less celebrated ally: the Turkish navy.
Jerry Brotton, a lecturer at Royal Holloway College, London, told the Guardian Hay literary festival that a hitherto unnoticed letter from Elizabeth's security chief and spymaster, Sir Francis Walsingham, to her ambassador in Istanbul showed that it was Turkish naval manoeuvres rather than Drake's swashbuckling which delivered the fatal blow to the Spanish invasion plans.
The letter, which ordered the ambassador, William Harborne, to incite the Turks to harry the Spanish navy, was written in the mid-1580s and has been buried in archives ever since because it did not apparently relate to any major historical event.
But Mr Brotton told the fes tival: "Walsingham's plan was ultimately successful. Ottoman fleet movements in the eastern Mediterranean fatally split Philip II's armada _ So alongside all the stories we're told at school about why the Spanish Armada failed to conquer Britain and destroy Protestantism, we should add another reason: the Anglo-Ottoman alliance brokered by Elizabeth, Walsingham [and others]."
In his letter to Harborne, Walsingham wrote: "Her Majesty being, upon the success of the said King of Spain's affairs in the Low Countries, now fully resolved to oppose herself against his proceedings in defence of that distressed nation, whereof it is not otherwise likely but hot wars between him and us, wills me again to require you effectually to use all your endeavour and industry in that behalf."
Walsingham hoped that Islamic forces might keep the Spanish forces "thoroughly occupied" by "some incursions from the coast of Africa", or by attacking his Italian territories from the sea.
The Spanish fleet was eventually defeated on July 30 1588 as it awaited the rest of the invasion force off Calais. At the battle of Gravelines, the English navy used fireships before closing in on the confused Spanish.

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Reply #1 - Jun 1st, 2004 at 5:17pm

Woodlouse2002   Offline
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What really saved us in 1587 was the weather. Hence the medalion stuck after the event has the words "God blew and they were scattered." England has to give a lot of thanks to that westerly gale that stopped the Spanish from being able to even get close to the coast.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #2 - Jun 1st, 2004 at 7:00pm

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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It figures that the Turks would still be smarting from the drubbing my ancestors gave them when we thrw them out of the country, and willingly cooperated with the underhanded English scheming.   Sure, all this English crying about "fair play" and all that ...   as long you're not held to the same standard!

(Note to Hagar - I do have to see the doc about that tongue-in-cheekitis problem I suffer so much about!)

 

Felix/FFDS...
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Reply #3 - Jun 8th, 2004 at 3:48am

GeneticA   Offline
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I have to remind you, this is a multinational forum and you should be careful whan saying things like that (who am I saying this?, you should know).

Being a Türk, I never smarted anything from my history, I am proud of it. I cannot bear someone talk about it like this.

Even if cunning English tricked Turks to help them in 1587, they paid it off in Çanakkale (18 March 1915), when Turks stopped English and made them withdraw, and they should be smarting from this, I think.

Anyway, I connot bear all this, and some other things as well. Will be looking for another forum. This is the last post probably.

I'm sorry if I hurted anyone with temper, but I couldn't resist posting this.

It is a shame that humankind had this much fight in the past.

Have nice flights.
 

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Reply #4 - Jun 8th, 2004 at 4:25am

Hagar   Offline
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GeneticA. If I might add my comments. Yes, this an international forum as most of us are well aware. I'm not sure quite what offended you but, being English, if anyone is offended it should be Woodlouse & me. However, we both know that these things were said in a lighthearted manner, the "tongue-in-cheekitis" that Felix mentioned. If I were to go off in a huff every time someone poked fun at me or my country I would have left this forum years ago. LOL

I've always thought that misunderstanding other people causes the majority of problems in this world of ours. If only we could all lighten up a little & not take things so seriously all the time it would be so much better. A sense of humour is a wonderful thing & a smile is far better than a frown. Wink

PS. Where I come from, poking fun at other nations is a national pastime. If we can't find a suitable victim we insult each other. All in good fun of course. Wink
« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2004 at 6:41am by Hagar »  

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Reply #5 - Jun 8th, 2004 at 7:14am

Felix/FFDS   Offline
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Quote:
I have to remind you, this is a multinational forum and you should be careful whan saying things like that (who am I saying this?, you should know).

Being a Türk, I never smarted anything from my history, I am proud of it. I cannot bear someone talk about it like this.

Even if cunning English tricked Turks to help them in 1587, they paid it off in Çanakkale (18 March 1915), when Turks stopped English and made them withdraw, and they should be smarting from this, I think.

Anyway, I connot bear all this, and some other things as well. Will be looking for another forum. This is the last post probably.

I'm sorry if I hurted anyone with temper, but I couldn't resist posting this.

It is a shame that humankind had this much fight in the past.

Have nice flights.


Also - to be historically correct, the Spanish (under Ferdinand and Isabela) finally won over the "Moros" - Arab Muslims that had been in Spain for a couple of centuries or so, and not specifically the "Turks".

At that period in time, I would not have given even bets on a Western power "giving a drubbing" to the Turks.


 

Felix/FFDS...
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