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ATI/4.5's (Read 1010 times)
May 18th, 2004 at 9:42am

cavity   Offline
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For all of you brave hearts out there, ATI has released the 4.5's.  Good luck and for those who try them, please let us know what your thoughts are.  I think Ill sit out on these, getting tired of all the updates.  Todd
 
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Reply #1 - May 18th, 2004 at 10:00am

Delta_   Offline
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I went from 4.3 to 4.5, the performance is basically the same in DX8.1, but also has bug fixes.  OpenGl performance has improved quite a lot, and DX9 performance has increased by ~30% for some games.
 

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Reply #2 - May 18th, 2004 at 10:55am

cavity   Offline
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Thanks for the reply.  30%, too bad we can't get that for 2004.  My graphics do look alot better with the 4.4's than any other driver I had.  Ill probalby do the 4.5 sometime soon.  Always looking for that performance boost, have yet to find it!  Todd
 
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Reply #3 - May 19th, 2004 at 2:43pm

codered   Offline
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I have upgraded my drivers to the 4.5's and I think these are a winner.  Grin  I used them with FS9 and Lock On last night and I am very impressed with them.  I ugraded from 3.9 to 4.5.  It took them this long to get the graphics looking great and the frames duable.  As far as a performance increase, I have not noticed much.  I have my sliders practically maxed and am able to get an average of 24 FPS.

You can check out my screen shots in the payware forum that were taken with the new 4.5's. Grin
 

Windows XP SP1&&Motherboard: Epox 8RDA + main board&&Processor: AMD XP2500 Barton CPU&&Memory: PC2700 1gb Geil DDR&&Hard Drive: SEA HDD IDE 40GB 7M 40GPP&&Hard Drive: Western Digital 40gb 8mb cache&&Monitor 15 LCD Flat Panel Display (15 viewable)&&Video Card: ATI Radeon 9500 Pro&&Sound Card: Creative Labs Audigy 2
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Reply #4 - May 19th, 2004 at 10:56pm

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I've been using the 4.5's for a few days.  They seem to be pretty good and they've fixed a few problems I was having on several games.
 
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Reply #5 - May 20th, 2004 at 10:12pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Do they NOTICEABLY increase framerates in FS9?

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................john
 

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Reply #6 - May 21st, 2004 at 12:10am

jubjub47   Offline
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Not much of a boost in fps, but not a decrease.  The picture is tons better than previously though.
 
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Reply #7 - May 21st, 2004 at 2:24am

Delta_   Offline
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FS9 uses DX8.1 graphics so it will not get an FPS increase in this version, as it was openGL and DX9.0 that got the increases, but as jubjub47 says it gives an improvement in IQ.  Which is worth it straight away.
 

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Reply #8 - May 21st, 2004 at 11:24pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Quote:
FS9 uses DX8.1 graphics so it will not get an FPS increase in this version, as it was openGL and DX9.0 that got the increases, but as jubjub47 says it gives an improvement in IQ.  Which is worth it straight away.


Thanks for the replies.

The image quality I already have with my 9800XT is already GREAT.... could care less about a better image at this point ..... what I need is better FPS  Sad .

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................john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #9 - May 22nd, 2004 at 10:25am

jubjub47   Offline
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The only way to boost your fps is with a nice cpu or memory upgrade.  Cpu's usually produce the largest boost though.  I also saw in your specs your running 4xagp....upgrading your mobo to an 8x compatible board would be huge for you too.
 
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Reply #10 - May 22nd, 2004 at 2:41pm

Delta_   Offline
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The difference between 8x and 4x is only 1-2%, so that reason on its own is not enough to warrant an upgrade.
 

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Reply #11 - May 22nd, 2004 at 10:19pm

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Quote:
The difference between 8x and 4x is only 1-2%, so that reason on its own is not enough to warrant an upgrade.


It's way more than 1-2% speaking from personal experience and technical stats.  I upgraded my system about a year ago from a 4x to an 8x board without changing any other components in my system.  My fps nearly doubled.  I went from avg fps of 12 to fps of 20-22 with fairly high settings and 100% traffic.  You've got to look at it how it is.  The 4x slot is basically a 4 lane highway with a high flow of traffic.  The 8x is an 8 lane highway with the same amount of traffic which has room to flow at a much higher speed.
 
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Reply #12 - May 23rd, 2004 at 2:36am

Delta_   Offline
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It may have been the change in motherboard, it was definetly not the change from 4x to 8x.  The extra bandwidth will only help high-end cards like the 9800pro and higher.

In this case it may help JBaymore, but not in all cases, it depends on the card that you use, but going up from 4x to 8x is wasting money.  Even though bandwidth doubles, the overall performance does not increases very much.

Useful links:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=562&cid=3&pg=3
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=562&cid=3&pg=5
http://forums.devhardware.com/archive/t-20110
 

My system:Intel Q6600@3.6GHz, Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2-6400 (4-4-4-12-1T) , Sapphire 7850 OC 2BG 920/5000, X-Fi Fatality, Corsair AX 750, 7 Pro x64
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Reply #13 - May 23rd, 2004 at 11:20am

jubjub47   Offline
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Well in JBaymores situation he's running a 9800xt through a 4x slot.  It doesn't get much higher end than that at the present.  And in my case of switching from 4x to 8x, I switched for the same brand same chipset board as to not have to reinstall windows to clear out drivers and such.  The change in performance was absolutely the faster 8x agp slot.

By the way...your article seems a bit out dated.  One line from the article tells you everything you need to know about the faster cards.

Quote:
You can definitely expect better gain in performance with faster GPUs such as the next generation of GeForce or ATI's upcoming RADEON 9700.

 
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Reply #14 - May 23rd, 2004 at 1:15pm

Delta_   Offline
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The basics still apply.  You get double the bandwidth, but the increase in fps is no more than 3%.  The 9700pro is still a high end card.
 

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Reply #15 - May 26th, 2004 at 6:11pm

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Well Jbaymore has had performance issues from the start and when compared to other computer similar to his, like mine for example, his performance falls short.  This still boggles my mind to this day, and I am sure he is just about fed up with it.  I am beginning to think his problem has to do with his 4X slot.  After changing things as he has, and upgrading to such a high end card, nothing has helped.  I'd say the last thing he hasn't tried yet is changing to a 8X AGP slot.  That just might have been the problem all along seeing as how everything else has failed in his attempt to even get his computer performing like others in his range.
 

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Reply #16 - May 27th, 2004 at 9:29am

_526th_Fireman   Offline
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Poor JBaymore, I agree and think there is a Gremlin in his machine somewhere.

Concerning the ATI Catalyst 4.5s, I have been using Omega drivers for awhile now and like them. I downloaded the Omega 2.5.36b drivers that are based on the Catalyst 4.5s and like these too. With settings pretty much maxed out, detailed clouds, 100% traffice with tons of PAI and default AI flying around at DFW, I am able to maintain 20 to 25 fps. Sometimes with a little dip here and there but always smooth flying. Very nice!

I think the 4.5s are worth getting and trying out as unlike other Display Adapter Driver upgrades, these DO seem to make an improvement, IMHO of course. Wink
 

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Reply #17 - May 27th, 2004 at 9:47am

cavity   Offline
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I too have followed JBaymore and his computer problems, as he and I have very similar computers.  I also feel that my computer is not performing up to specs compared with others.  I have a Pent 4  at 2.6, 800FSB, 9600 Pro, 1 Gig of DDR 400, and an 80 gig, 7200 rpm hard drive.  I have updated everything, but the real problem is  I have no idea what kind of performance Im supposed to be getting.  To compare to others isnt really  much good, as everyone knows, there are tons of little things that seem to make a difference.  I guess maybe I should bench mark it and use that as a guide. I have mine locked at 24fps, and everything maxed except water effects(none), and autogen on normal.  I have cloud set at 70 miles, highly detailed and 70% 3d.  The biggest drag on my system seems to be Ai aircraft.  I fly out of Atlanta and from the spot view get a maximum of 10-11 fps.  Out of LAX 12-13 max.  Is this good, I dont know?  I guess it seems like alot of lower systems are out performing this by at least 10-20%.  I have thought about reloading the game and starting over, but at this point I probably have 50 hours of downloads invested and backing all of this up and reloading it isnt an option.  I just wish I knew if my computer is performing  the way it is supposed to.  I do have the AGP at 8x, but it didnt change anything when I tried 4x, so I am out of ideas.  Good luck to those still searching!  Todd
 
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Reply #18 - May 28th, 2004 at 10:08am

_526th_Fireman   Offline
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Cavity...Just for fun, I set my game up, as you mentioned as far as FS9 settings. Flew out of Hartsfield in Atlanta in spot view. I am running a resolution of 1280X1024X32. I was getting 20-26 fps on runway. In air, still in spot view with Hartsfield in sight, that really drug me down to 15-18 fps. The only thing I could find that really helped up the fps was selecting a minimal setting in weather/clouds. In cockpit there is no problem at all, even using the Mini Panel.

Specs: P4 2.8 HT, 800 FSB, 1Gig PC3200 400 FSB, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128, 80 Gig HD. NEC Multisync LCD1700V.

Hope that gave you an idea to compare your machine to.
 

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Reply #19 - May 29th, 2004 at 7:45pm

nickle   Offline
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There is little performance increase 4x to 8x AGI in THG tests. Some improvement but not much.
ATI has been criticized in the past for not issuing drivers.  Now complaint of too many updates? ATI does recommend not upgrading unless problem or running an app they specifically fixed.  Barring a specific fix, I'll update 4.4 later this year.
 
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Reply #20 - May 29th, 2004 at 9:12pm

Silver1SWA   Offline
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Quote:
There is little performance increase 4x to 8x AGI in THG tests. Some improvement but not much.
ATI has been criticized in the past for not issuing drivers.  Now complaint of too many updates? ATI does recommend not upgrading unless problem or running an app they specifically fixed.  Barring a specific fix, I'll update 4.4 later this year.  


Yeah but what cards were these tests run on?!  The key is the graphics card.  A card designed to run on an 8X AGP slot will not operate at full capacity if run through a 4X slot.  If a 4X card was run in an 8X slot, no change will be noticed.
 

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Reply #21 - May 30th, 2004 at 12:10am

nickle   Offline
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Read the THG test here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20000214/index.html

Here is another test showing 1 percent 4x to 8x

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=604&pg=2

Two other tests:  One zero and the other 3 to 5 percent.

Newer cards, apps, and cards and drivers will likely benefit from 8X more than older cards.  But not the apparent 100 percent increase 4X to 8X.

Similar in CPU's.  AMD 2000 to AMD 3000 apparent performance increase is 50 percent.  THG tests show an increase of 28 percent.  Substantial but not as expected.
« Last Edit: May 30th, 2004 at 10:34am by nickle »  
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Reply #22 - May 30th, 2004 at 1:52am

Delta_   Offline
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This link shows a good comparison, agp 8x is only just ahead for the mx440, and for the ti 4200 they are approximently the same.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/200210041/nv18_nv28-07.html
 

My system:Intel Q6600@3.6GHz, Corsair XMS2 4GB DDR2-6400 (4-4-4-12-1T) , Sapphire 7850 OC 2BG 920/5000, X-Fi Fatality, Corsair AX 750, 7 Pro x64
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Reply #23 - Jun 1st, 2004 at 12:17pm

cavity   Offline
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Fireman, thanks for the comparison, I have been away and just checked the boards. It appears that you also have much better performance from your system than I do.  2.8 vs 2.6, and 9800 vs 9600, seems to give you about 4-6 fps average more than myself.  Doesnt seem like much but when you are talking about low end being 16 fps compared to 11, the difference is considerable.  I realized this weekend that while I have a gig of ram, I am not running it in parallel, so I may be limiting my FSB to 400 mhz.  I am going to get another stick of 512, and replace the 2 sticks of 256.  Maybe running it in parallel will help.  Anyway, thanks again for the comparison, Ill let you know if I find anything.  Todd
 
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Reply #24 - Jun 2nd, 2004 at 3:09am

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I am discovering that my computer and FS9 absolutely work best with the Omega 2.4.96c drivers that are based off the ATI cat 3.9s!  It's really weird.  All other driver versions (ATI and Omega) give me problems with stutters and lower FPS counts.  I lock my FPS at 30 and I can maintain averages between 26-30 in most scenarios, but as with any computer, certain areas or traffic/weather settings, etc can bring down by 5-10 FPS.  But with this driver version, I can dip down to 16-18 FPS and my performance will still be seemingly smoother than when using any other driver version and getting FPS in the low to high 20s.   No more experimenting with new releases for me.  
 

P4 3.20Ghz 800Mhz FSB&&1 GB PC3200 400Mhz DDR RAM (Dual Channel)&&Nvidia GeForce 6800GT 256MB 8X AGP&&SB Audigy MP3+&&Win XP Pro
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