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Drinking and Flying (Read 662 times)
Reply #15 - Apr 26th, 2004 at 9:00am
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
Hi Bazza:

Sorry but I never tried to drink it....I am afraid I have been a scotch or beer drinker.

I have heard stories of people drinking the alcohol out of the compass though.

What people do not understand but over a prolonged period of time some of that stuff will cause blindness.

Just getting off the topic for a second...all of you that like taking pictures of aircraft...be very careful when approaching the aircraft that it's radar is not on or being tested by the crew.  There are procedures to ensure safety at ALL Military Bases as well as Commercial Airports and pilots and technicians have policy procedures to follow regarding this.
However I see a lot of pictures posted of corporate aircraft at smaller airfields.  Just make sure no one in the aircraft is showing someone else inside the radar or workings of the aircraft before stepping in front to take your shots.
Medical problems can occur depending on exposure  time and the strength of radar unit.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug Smiley
 
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Reply #16 - Apr 26th, 2004 at 12:46pm

codered   Offline
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When I used to work at an FBO we had these arosal type cans with a tube that would go into the fuel tank.  We would put the fuel de-ice additive in the tank while we were pumping the Jet-A.  We would even do it during the summer months.  Although it might be 80 degrees on the ground, once the jets would climb to cruise altitude, it could get to below freezing.

Ah those were the days of a ramp rat.  Everyone should try it sometime in their youth.... Grin
 

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Reply #17 - Apr 26th, 2004 at 3:37pm
Falcon Six Two   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Hi Falcon:

It was used for de-icing.
We also used vegetable and mineral based hydraulic fluids prior to what they are using to-day.
Survival equipment such as edible candles were also standard on most  military aircraft up to the late 1960s.
Most people are more familiar with ethylene glycol, diol, dihydric alcohol which are a sweet but poisonous syrupy liquid used as an antifreeze and solvent.
Glycol is any of a class of alcohols having 2 hydroxyl groups in each molecule.
The inventions, proto types and progress made by militarys in peace and war is what usually brings forth commercial products used by the private sector.
Not being a chemist or very well versed on glycol I am sure if you looked on the internet or even asked your science teacher you would get a lot more help than I can give you.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug Smiley


Shocked

Wow. That's a lot about Isopropyl I didn't know...

No offense, but I think you know more than my science teacher in this regard... Grin

 
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Reply #18 - Apr 26th, 2004 at 9:04pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
Thanks for the compliment Falcon Smiley.

Please do not underestimate your teachers.  Experience is one thing however it only comes with knowledge.  Any person who feels that they can survive with experience alone is only fooling themselves.  A person no matter what trade or profession they are in must always continue to seek knowledge. 
Teachers are the finest exporters/conveyors of facts and knowledge and you would probably find many have experience in the specialized field that they teach in.

After 40 year of flying I realize I am not the quickest bunny in the woods any more...BUT...I learned over the years to make contacts and to ask questions.  Since I gave all my trade manuals to the museum I can still pick up the phone and call them or people like those at SPAR, Air Canada, people still serving in the Armed Forces and yes some Teachers.

And Falcon this Forum is full of very very knowledgeable folks from all walks of life...so don't ever be afraid to ask a question and that goes for anyone. Smiley

Just ask Hagar every time the poor fellow posts...who always has a question...that dam flying trucker GrinLOL

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

 
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Reply #19 - Apr 26th, 2004 at 10:07pm
Bazza   Ex Member

 
Blimey Doug,

You must be nearly as (old) mature as me ! !

Good advice though.....

Bazza
 
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Reply #20 - Apr 26th, 2004 at 10:48pm
Jakemaster   Ex Member

 
This is a very intresting thread.  Its always nice to learn more about these old birds Wink
 
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Reply #21 - Apr 27th, 2004 at 4:38pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
Hi Folks...just got a call from a friend of mine who put as many hours in the Dak as I did...he now is a consultant with firms like SPAR and a few more.
He mentioned that the DAK or DC3 also progressed to de-icing boots on the props and does have some shots of both systems.Will try to obtain them and send them off to you folks who are interested.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
 
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Reply #22 - Apr 27th, 2004 at 11:27pm

ruekesj   Offline
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i can offer a little bit of knowledge Grin  

i currently work at an FBO and we use several types of de-icing fluids.  there are types 1-4,  type one is Propylene Glycol,usually mixed 50/50 with water, is kept heated( about 110 degrees F.) and sprayed on the surface to melt off thin layers of snow and ice. if the ambient temp. is below freezing or it is still snowing heavily or there is freezing rain, it will allow 15-20 minutes of effectiveness to get you off the ground.

type 4 ( i'm not sure of the chemical compound, 'cause we don't use it ) is used for longer holdover periods.  it is sprayed on after type 1 to keep water from freezing to the de-iced aircraft for about an hour.  using type 1, followed by type 4 is a process called Anti-icing.

type 2 is TKS.  aircraft like Hawkers use this method because they don't have bleed air heated leading edges or pnuematic boots.  TKS is held in a reservoir just behind the copilot and is fed to a mesh on the wing that soaks and allows the fluid to pass over the wing in flight keeping ice from forming.

i don't know what type 3 is, i've never seen it.
you can tell the types apart by color, they all smell sweet like anti-freeze.   1 is orange, 2 (TKS) is clear, 4 is green.

all prop planes i've seen no longer use the alchohol method for the prop de-ice.  they have electrtic heated boots.  even the vintage planes still used to haul cargo have ben retro fitted because it's more cost effective. the only planes that might still use it are ones restored to factory for airshows and exhibits.

for Codered:   the fluid in the aerosol cans is called PFA55MB or PFA56MB ,( also known as Prist )  it keeps ice crystals from forming in jet fuel and clogging filters.  it's almost always premixed now because almost every jet aircraft needs it.   Prist also helps to keep bacteria from growing in the fuel,  and they use in the summer too because at 30,000ft it's below freezing Grin
 

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Reply #23 - Apr 28th, 2004 at 4:33am

Wing Nut   Offline
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Next time they fill it, put Jack Daniels in there instead!  Grin
 

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Reply #24 - Apr 29th, 2004 at 8:52pm
Flying Trucker   Ex Member

 
Hi ruekesj:

Great information..Thanks!

Now...I am a bit rusty on the recovery of glycol...perhaps you could inform us...Most Military and Civil Airfields recover glycol and store it to be shipped back and recycled.
At what per-centage (the strength when tested on the ground) is that done?
Also I understand that which is not recovered from the ground is released usually to a sewage  treatment section on the airfield and actually feeds the bacteria.
Am I correct in stating that?
I also see now hot air as well as de-icing fluid can be used by the glycol spray trucks...I take it this is a cost saving as well as environmental procedure.
We have some members writing I believe term papers that your input might be interesting to them as how we are helping the environment by not releasing these chemicals directly into the environment.

Would look forward to your input....Thanks for Posting Smiley

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
 
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