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I have indeed given it one or more tries with an even smaller plane and find that it would take a pretty nice trick to get by the area we have in question........in fact it may take some real magic .......as in " smoke and mirrors "..........

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=screen;action=display;num=...

I admit it.........I can't get through there, so I should just "Shut up" since I can't "Put up"