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King Louis (Read 1875 times)
Mar 29
th
, 2004 at 7:03pm
Smoke2much
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Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
I found out something quite interesting today. Apparently we had a King Louis around 1280 something . He was never crowned but was recognised by the Barons as King. He was summarily evicted by King John and the pope after about 11 months.
Funny old world.
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Reply #1 -
Mar 30
th
, 2004 at 6:48am
Felix/FFDS
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Who's "we" ??
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #2 -
Mar 30
th
, 2004 at 7:37am
Woodlouse2002
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Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England
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The royal "we". The inhabitants of England.
Not Scotland though, by that time they had their own monarch.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #3 -
Mar 30
th
, 2004 at 10:09am
Felix/FFDS
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Quote:
The royal "we". The inhabitants of England.
Not Scotland though, by that time they had their own monarch.
I thought so, but it's always nice to remember that not all folk trace our roots to England...
THen again, there was George I, Louis of Hanover...
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #4 -
Mar 30
th
, 2004 at 8:13pm
Smoke2much
Offline
Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
I didn't forget that Felix, if I had been referring to any country but my own I would have written "The (insert country)". To me writing "The English" would have felt odd and I thought most folks around here know where I'm from. Funny old world but there you have it. It's true about the Louis by the way.
Will
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Reply #5 -
Mar 31
st
, 2004 at 9:32am
Woodlouse2002
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Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England
Gender:
Posts: 12574
I think the reason we've never heard of this King Louis before is because King John was still alive when he was proclaimed king by the barons, he was never crowned and within a year King John had got the throne back. And as there can't be two kings in one country, and as King John came out on top, Louis I was simply forgotten about.
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #6 -
Mar 31
st
, 2004 at 9:46am
Smoke2much
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Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
Plus the fact he was slightly French, we happened to be at war with them at the time. It seems it was another invasion LOL.
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Reply #7 -
Mar 31
st
, 2004 at 3:12pm
Felix/FFDS
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Quote:
Plus the fact he was slightly French, we happened to be at war with them at the time. It seems it was another invasion LOL.
Well, let's consider - Richard (Coeur de Leon) - in his ten year reign of England, spent the grand total of six months(?) in England. The rest of his reign was spent either sightseeing in Palestine, captured in Germany (two years), and fighting the French in HIS domains in Acquitaine (i.e. France). For an English king, he was quite French.
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #8 -
Mar 31
st
, 2004 at 3:45pm
Woodlouse2002
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Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England
Gender:
Posts: 12574
Quote:
Plus the fact he was slightly French, we happened to be at war with them at the time. It seems it was another invasion LOL.
I wouldn't quite call it an invasion. The word invasion would lead me to suggest that he uninvitedly came to england and took the throne. As he was invited by the Barons I don't think it quite fits the word invasion...
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #9 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 6:37am
Smoke2much
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Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
Yeah, Felix has it sussed. It wasn't until Richard II that England really became "Real" We had a brief turn at running the place until James I (VI Scotland) took over, then after the Scots we had the House of Orange (Dutch) then the House of Hanover (German) and finally the Sax Coburgs (German again) although they did change their name to Windsor to prevent being lynched.
Who am I kidding here.... LMAO
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Reply #10 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 11:04am
eno
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Colonel
Why you shouldn't light
your farts!!
Derbyshire UK
Posts: 7802
I would like to point out at this point that England still does not have its own monach.
The correct title for the Queen is "Queen Elizbeth Queen of Scots and the second of England". A fact that the Scots forget is that James VI (first of England) did, infact, move his court from Edinburgh to London. Had he not then Edinburgh would have become the Capital City of a United Kingdom.
Tis amazing what you learn when you live with a historian for 6 years
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Reply #11 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 11:15am
Smoke2much
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Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
The English version would be Queen Elizabeth II, I of Scotland. Under the Act of Union (17--??) I believe the English throne holds precedence over the Scots.
Geeze this could easily turn into a flaming session between the English members and the Scotish members.
Will
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Reply #12 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 11:53am
Woodlouse2002
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Colonel
I like jam.
Cornwall, England
Gender:
Posts: 12574
Aye. But if we're lucky they might not spot it.
I doubt it will turn bad. Crazycraig hates the monarchy, so I doubt he cares, Whitey doesn't venture onto the boards often these days and I've forgotten who our other scottish members are...
Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #13 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 12:30pm
eno
Offline
Colonel
Why you shouldn't light
your farts!!
Derbyshire UK
Posts: 7802
Quote:
The English version would be Queen Elizabeth II, I of Scotland. Under the Act of Union (17--??) I believe the English throne holds precedence over the Scots.
Geeze this could easily turn into a flaming session between the English members and the Scotish members.
Will
I hope it doesnt become flamable .... I'm English but I made my home in Scotland for 13 years (It's still my spiritual home)
I was of the understanding that when James ceeded (i think thats the right spelling
and the right word. ) the throne he was still in Edinburgh he could have chosen to stay there .... however the most influencial people of the time where based in London .... and therefore James moved the Scottish court. He did have the power to bring the English court up to Edinburgh.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Reply #14 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 12:35pm
Smoke2much
Offline
Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
As far as I'm aware you are spot on with the James and the Giant Capital bit. I am no expert on this however so we may be agreeing in ignorance LOL.
My point was that the Queen is Queen first of England, then of Scotland as the precedent was set in the act of union some 100 odd years after the death of James.
Added to this is the fact that many Scots don't accept the Sovereignty of the English monarchy. The whole debate is (IMHO) moot.
Will
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Reply #15 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 12:38pm
eno
Offline
Colonel
Why you shouldn't light
your farts!!
Derbyshire UK
Posts: 7802
True ........
Just to think if there had been a TRUE King Louis then I might have been related
I can but dream lol
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Reply #16 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 12:40pm
Smoke2much
Offline
Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
If we had had a real king louis we would all be speaking French....
Will
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Reply #17 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 12:48pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Quote:
If we had had a real king louis we would all be speaking French....
Will
Not necessarily so. George I (1714-27 AD).
Quote:
His character and mannerisms were strictly German; he never troubled himself to learn the English language, and spent at least half of his time in Hanover.
http://www.britannia.com/history/monarchs/mon53.html
Apart from a few common words like "Ja" & "Nein" I speak no German whatsoever.
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Reply #18 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 12:56pm
Smoke2much
Offline
Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
Having said that we are talking about a man who was "King" before the formation of a real English National identity. At this time the Nobles were speaking a corrupt Norman French and the commons Old English. It wasn't until Richard II that English was recognised as the national tongue.
Had the heir to the French throne gained the English throne first he may well have moved the capital back to France and made us simply a "department" of the larger nation. This would result in French being the primary tongue and the Latin legal system being enforced.
We had had nearly 350 years practice before George I came over and by that time the absolute power of the monarchy had already passed.
We could argue about this all day and still never get anywhere. LOVE IT!!!
Will
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Reply #19 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 1:00pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
Quote:
Having said that we are talking about a man who was "King" before the formation of a real English National identity. At this time the Nobles were speaking a corrupt Norman French and the commons Old English. It wasn't until Richard II that English was recognised as the national tongue.
Had the heir to the French throne gained the English throne first he may well have moved the capital back to France and made us simply a "department" of the larger nation. This would result in French being the primary tongue and the Latin legal system being enforced.
We had had nearly 350 years practice before George I came over and by that time the absolute power of the monarchy had already passed.
I see where you're coming from.*
Quote:
We could argue about this all day and still never get anywhere. LOVE IT!!!
Will
*Pity really as this is my sort of argument.
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Reply #20 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 1:04pm
Smoke2much
Offline
Colonel
The Unrepentant Heretic
Sittingbourne, Kent,
Posts: 3879
That's why I love it so much. It is truely entertaining and utterly without any recognisable point
Will
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Reply #21 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 1:09pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
Costa Geriatrica
Posts: 33159
I always suspected that I am of Norman descent. I found French no trouble to learn & it was by far my best subject at school. The trouble was that once I'd left it was even easier to forget.
I can no longer hold any sort of conversation in French.
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Reply #22 -
Apr 1
st
, 2004 at 1:17pm
eno
Offline
Colonel
Why you shouldn't light
your farts!!
Derbyshire UK
Posts: 7802
Im a true mongrel.... My fathers side of the family can be traced back to Mauritius via France and my Mothers side was originally Scottish shipped to Ireland.
Im sure if I looked closely enough into the family history I could claim many nationalities.
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