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Identity crisis (Read 2365 times)
Mar 5th, 2004 at 3:37pm

ozzy72   Offline
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Okay, this is a v.unusual plane, I want type and model number!!! This is not as easy as it looks Grin
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Ps. Hawker, no playing or helping as you already know this one Wink Grin Kiss
 

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Reply #1 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 3:41pm

Craig.   Offline
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is it a hurricane?
although those look a little like WW1 uniforms. or i am going blind
 
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Reply #2 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 3:43pm

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A Hurri?! Err Craig what have you been drinking this evening? Roll Eyes Tongue Grin
 

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Reply #3 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 3:55pm

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urmmm.. Smiley
i am no good with ID'ing these aircraft, new aircraft a little better. ok given your history, i am going for an early version of a spitfire, urm Mk1?
 
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Reply #4 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 4:13pm

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Spitfire (Type 349) Mk Vb with desert air filter.
 

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Reply #5 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 4:15pm

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Neither right so far Grin
 

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Reply #6 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 4:30pm

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What's throwing me off is the combination of the 3-bladed prop and the multi-ejector exhaust - I'd call it an MkXII (clipped wing) with a 3-bladed prop.

 

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Reply #7 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 4:35pm

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Nope Grin
 

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Reply #8 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 5:01pm

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A Spitterschmit? Grin
 
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Reply #9 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 6:07pm

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Seafire L MkIIIc?

 

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Reply #10 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 6:13pm

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Well, a Spitfire, with a Vokes Aero-Vee filter. It has an asymetric air intake thing and oil cooler layout which makes me think MkV. It has two cannon and it seems to have at least two machine guns out board in the wings. So I would think it's a LF.MkVB/C.

Also with that weather I would think it's operating either in Italy or Burma. The photo's fairly late war as there are plenty of four bladed prop aircraft in the background.

Anyway. My guess is a Spitfire LF.MkV with either a b or c wing.
 

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Reply #11 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 6:14pm

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is it a recon spitfire?
 
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Reply #12 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 6:21pm

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...with all that water and mud around, I would go for an early version of "Wellington" boots...?
LOL...LOL...LOL... Grin...!

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Reply #13 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 5:09am

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So far there are no winners of the Clever Clogs prize Grin
 

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Reply #14 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 11:45am
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All I can say is: This is definately no Messerschmidt.

I'd go for a Spit Mk II with a desert air filter.
 
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Reply #15 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 11:47am
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Is it a Seafire II fitted with a tropical filter and clipped wings?
 
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Reply #16 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 11:56am

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Steve-O wins the Clever Clogs award, it is indeed a Seafire II with the clipped wings (incredibly rare!) and the Vokes filter.
Well done that man Wink
Oh and this photo was taken in '44 at a small refit base in France.

Ozzy
 

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Reply #17 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 12:03pm

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When Mark first sent me this photo it was a real mystery! Seafire LF MkIIc with trop filter and invasion stripes. Shame I can't see it's code letters (other than the aircraft letter) and serial numbers as it would make a great subject for a model.
 

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Reply #18 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 4:16pm

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But what about the helmet on the dude with his hands up... It certainly isn't british.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #19 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 4:57pm

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Quote:
But what about the helmet on the dude with his hands up... It certainly isn't british.

Maybe he's French? The chaps sitting on and holding the wing look like they have British Army helmets on and you can see at least four Spit IX's behind so it's certainly a British facility.
I should point out that this is the only picture of a IIc with a trop filter I've ever seen. And the fact that it's obviously being used in the European theater just deepens the mystery.
« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2004 at 6:57pm by HawkerTempest5 »  

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Reply #20 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 5:06pm

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Roger I've been pondering this little mystery for a while, do you think it might be one of the ones built and allocated to N. Africa or the Malta campaign that didn't get delivered?
I think the lid on the guy in the foreground of the shot is French. Although my knowledge of French headgear is rather limited......

Mark
 

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Reply #21 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 5:12pm

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The only FAA Squadron equipped with the Seafire IIc on the appropriate date appears to have been 807.
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Squadrons/807.html
Quote:
Aircraft

Fulmar I Sept 1940-April 1941
Fulmar II April 1941-June 1942
Sea Hurricane Nov 1941- Nov 1941
Seafire Ib June 1942 -Sept 1942
SeafireL.IIc June 1942 -Oct 1944
SeafireL.III June 1944 -end of WW2

Quote:
the whole squadron took part in the South of France Operation Dragoon landings in HMS Hunter in August 1944, when the squadron inflicted considerable damage to locomotives and road transport.
 

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Reply #22 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 5:12pm

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It's not a french lid, i'm quite sure of that. I'm thinking that it might be Italian. There would certainly be more need for a tropical filter in Italy.




Also the fact that this aircraft is a Seafire MkII with filter etc. Surely your going on the type of aircraft it is by the caption to the picture where ever you got it from? Therefore it could very easily be a mistake.

 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #23 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 5:19pm

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I doubt it, as the info comes from a friend who is an aircraft historian!!!
I think the helmet could be Dutch? Its not the Adrian (French) as that has a large strip front to back over the top... Hmm the helmet is proving more of a challenge than the plane Grin Grin Grin Shocked
Hmm your ID makes sense Doug, but I'm trying to get more info out of my friend at the moment... Like Roger said, it could be an interesting project, now do Airfix make a Seafire II kit? 8)
 

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Reply #24 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 5:33pm

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How about a caption for that photo. Here's mine. Wink

Don't shoot guys - I'll come quietly. Cheesy
 

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Reply #25 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 5:38pm

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Quote:
I think the helmet could be Dutch? Its not the Adrian (French) as that has a large strip front to back over the top... Hmm the helmet is proving more of a challenge than the plane Grin Grin Grin Shocked

If the infomation Hagar say's is true then that aircraft should be in the south of france. So a long way from Holland. What did the Vichy frech helmets look like? If its not that then i'm sticking with Italian.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #26 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 5:45pm

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The Adrian was used by both sides of the French and had its origins in WWI.
Could be one of the Dutch units that fought alongside the British, or it could be a capitulated Italian.... Hmm I really am flumoxed by this one....

Mark
 

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Reply #27 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 5:48pm

Hagar   Offline
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I missed the most important part that could explain the tropical filter & the helmet. Here it is in full.

Quote:
Squadron detachments were lent to the Desert Air Force in Italy for several weeks in April 1944, then the whole squadron took part in the South of France Operation Dragoon landings in HMS Hunter in August 1944, when the squadron inflicted considerable damage to locomotives and road transport.


Airfix only do the 1/48th scale FR.47. You would have to modify a Spitfire. They do a Mk Vb. http://www.modernmodels.com/airfix001.htm
 

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Reply #28 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 6:09pm

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Ah mystery solved as to the kites ID, but the helmet still puzzles....
Oh and I've got the Seafire III model by Airfix thanks Hagar, I'm painting the parts ready for assembly at the moment Wink

Ozzy
 

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Reply #29 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 6:22pm
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Definately not italian.
http://www.italianfront.com/reproheadgrPg2.htm

German helmets looked similar to this one,but only the ones from the eastern side after WW2. Wink
 
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Reply #30 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 6:26pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Ah mystery solved as to the kites ID, but the helmet still puzzles....

Does this look familiar?

...
WWII Italian M33 Army Helmet
With leather suspension and web chin strap.

Elements of 807 Squadron were based in Italy for several weeks. Of course, this might be completely irrelevant. There's no indication if the marshaller is anything to do with the squadron. Wink
 

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Reply #31 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 6:38pm

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It could well be THE ANSWER Doug, I know how many err souvenirs my great uncles acquired, including a Knights Cross and a few pistols etc etc... One of them did hand in the Panzerfaust when he found out how dangerous they were and his wife insisted it wasn't staying on the livingroom wall any longer Grin
 

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Reply #32 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 6:41pm

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Guys, not Italy. That plane is in full invasion stripes and that places it in the ETO circa June 1944. It is certainly a MkIIc and not a Ib (six stack exhusts and it has a C wing fitted and only the IIc was used with clipped wings). My guess is that it was one of the aircraft used for target spotting. Both the RN and USN used Spitfire V's and Seafire II's for this duty arround D-Day and it simply could just be a plane borrowed from its unit for this duty as was the case with most aircraft used in this way.
Ozzy, the Airfix Spit Vc/Seafire L III kit has everything you need to build a Seafire Ib, IIc and IIIc right from the box. All you need is a third party set of decals.
 

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Reply #33 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 6:50pm

Hagar   Offline
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Tempest. I'm not saying the photo was taken in Italy, simply that the squadron had served there previously with the DAF. This could explain the tropical filter & the helmet. It all seems to fit nicely - maybe too nicely. Wink

Quote:
807 Squadron FAA
Aircraft

Fulmar I Sept 1940-April 1941  
Fulmar II April 1941-June 1942  
Sea Hurricane Nov 1941- Nov 1941  
Seafire Ib June 1942 -Sept 1942  
SeafireL.IIc June 1942 -Oct 1944
SeafireL.III June 1944 -end of WW2  

Squadron detachments were lent to the Desert Air Force in Italy for several weeks in April 1944, then the whole squadron took part in the South of France Operation Dragoon landings in HMS Hunter in August 1944, when the squadron inflicted considerable damage to locomotives and road transport.
 

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Reply #34 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 7:00pm

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For some reason I feel that I can sit back and feel smug now.... Grin
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #35 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 7:04pm

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Woodie aren't your legs numb enough already from sitting on that the piece of Royal Daltons finest for months on end? Grin Grin Grin
 

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Reply #36 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 7:06pm

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Hagar old pal, I do agree with you about the 807 connection and I knew they used the IIc in the Med until around October '44 when they were replaced by the L IIIc. I still think this is a borrowed machine and that would explain the Vokes filter on a plane in the ETO.
 

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Reply #37 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 7:08pm

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I shall sit back and put my feet up atop the towel rail to get the circulation going. With a vast feeling of smugness still mind... Grin
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #38 - Mar 6th, 2004 at 7:13pm

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Quote:
Hagar old pal, I do agree with you about the 807 connection and I knew they used the IIc in the Med until around October '44 when they were replaced by the L IIIc. I still think this is a borrowed machine and that would explain the Vokes filter on a plane in the ETO.

But Hagar's info tells us that this squadron supported landings in the south of France. This with serving in the Med and Italy more than explains the filter and would explaint the invasion stripes. Anyway, I thought invasion stripes became standered for all aircraft in all theatres after a point.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #39 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 6:50am

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Quote:
But Hagar's info tells us that this squadron supported landings in the south of France. This with serving in the Med and Italy more than explains the filter and would explaint the invasion stripes. Anyway, I thought invasion stripes became standered for all aircraft in all theatres after a point.

Woody, when was the last time you saw a Seafire or Hellcat or Coursair in the Pacific theater with invasion stripes? Invasion stripes were applied to allied aircraft taking part in operation Overlord. They were not used in any other theater of war again until Royal Navy aircraft used them during the Korean conflict. I'm not disputing the fact that 807 squadron served in Italy and North Africa, what I am disputing is that this photo was taken in Italy which it clearly was not. There is no evidence to say this is even an 807 squadron aircraft. I think it was Mark that said it could have been an aircraft intended for use in Malta but did not get delivered.
 

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Reply #40 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 7:31am

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It could be a case of an emergency transfer. It wasn't unknown for sqns to swap aircraft to others when shortages prevailed, and this Seafire II could easily have ended up serving with an RAF sqn. briefly during overlord... If I find out anymore about this particular kite I promise I'll post it.

Ozzy Wink
 

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Reply #41 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 7:57am

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Quote:
Invasion stripes were applied to allied aircraft taking part in operation Overlord. They were not used in any other theater of war again until Royal Navy aircraft used them during the Korean conflict.

I'm not sure this is quite correct Tempest. Invasion markings were certanly used on aircraft in the Sicily campaign in July 1943. This is besides the point. The question is - once aircraft in the ETO were painted with "D-Day" stripes were they ever removed & if so, when?

This is what Ozzy said about the photo in a previous reply. Quote:
it is indeed a Seafire II with the clipped wings (incredibly rare!) and the Vokes filter.
Well done that man  
Oh and this photo was taken in '44 at a small refit base in France.

Assuming this is true, what was a Seafire with a tropical filter doing in France with invasion stripes? I suggest my theory is as good as any & I'm surprised you can't see that. Roll Eyes

We know that 807 Squadron used this particular mark of Seafire in support of Operation Dragoon which took place in August 1944.* That puts it in France, albeit in the South, at the right time. As this was a combined operation with US forces taking place a short time after D-Day I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the aircraft would also have the invasion stripes. If that was not the case the Seafire could have been sent to the refit base to have them painted on before being used elsewhere.

As for the helmet, if the marshaller is part of the squadron he could have picked it up when they served in Italy. This is less important as he might be someone on the base staff.

*PS Operation Dragoon (first named Anvil) was originally planned to coincide with the Normandy invasion. Quote:
Planned originally as a simultaneous complement to OVERLORD, the cross-Channel attack on Normandy, ANVIL actually took place over two months later, on 15 August 1944, making it appear almost an afterthought to the main Allied offensive in northern Europe. Yet the success of ANVIL and the ensuing capture of the great southern French ports of Toulon and Marseilles, together with the subsequent drive north up the Rhone River valley to Lyon and Dijon, were ultimately to provide critical support to the Normandy-based armies finally moving east toward the German border.
 

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Reply #42 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 9:06am

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I'm with Hagar on this one. I'm sure by 1944 aircraft operating in southern europe would have had invasion stripes. It would make sense to do so if in north europe the fighters and AA gunners where blatting away at anything flying with out them. Therefore the presence of invasion stripes does not place the aircraft in Northern France.

However the only way to know for sure where the photo was taken is to find the guy who took it. And without him around I think its perfectly acceptable to guess it was taken in the south of france or Italy. Which would explain the tin hat and the Vokes filter.
 

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!
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Reply #43 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 3:06pm

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As an aside, I found a couple of interesting sites while researching all this. Here's a very interesting article on the Seafire. No author credited but it can only be by the great man himself, Eric "Winkle" Brown. http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/WWII/seafire/sea-info/sea_info.htm

This extract should amuse Ozzy.
Quote:
The Seafire L Mk IIC was the most exciting aircraft that I had flown to that time. Its initial climb rate and acceleration were little short of magnificent, and at maximum boost it could maintain 4,600 ft/mm (23,36 m/sec) upto 6,000 ft (1 830 in).
.................

My enthusiasm for this new Seafire variant was such that, one afternoon, in sheer exhilaration, I looped it around both spans of the Forth Bridge in succession - court-martial stuff nowadays but during a war nobody has the time to bother with such formalities.


This comment made me wonder why RAF pilots would need to know how to trap on a carrier. Roll Eyes
Quote:
Between 29 December 1942 and 3 January 1943, I had had the task of giving Seafire deck landing instruction to No 65(F) "East India" Squadron, RAF

He mentions another incident very similar to the one with AB910.
Quote:
It was about this time that I witnessed a very unusual incident at Machrihanish when the airfield was alerted that a Seafire being flown by Lt David Wilkinson (later to be killed in a flying accident) had a mechanic wrapped around its rear end! The mechanic, a rating appropriately enough named Overhead, had apparently been lying on the tail of the Seafire to hold it down while running up on the deck of a carrier in the Clyde area. Wilkinson had throttled back to let the mechanic off, but due to a misunderstanding, the mechanic had remained where he was and the Seafire had taken-off with him clinging on for dear life. The pilot could not account for the extraordinary tail-heaviness of his Seafire until he was alerted by radio of the situation. He promptly headed for Machrihanish at low level and slow cruise, the slipstream clamping the unfortunate mechanic in position. A straight-in approach to the runway and a wheeler landing to keep the tail up as long as possible, and the mechanic's ordeal was over - he suffered shock and the effects of cold, but was otherwise totally unhurt.

I also found this which seem to confirm that the Operation Dragoon aircraft had invasion stripes. http://www.usaaftroopcarrier.com/Historical%20Overview.htm
Quote:
In an effort to prevent the "friendly fire" that downed so many TC aircraft in Sicily, USAAF and British aircraft were painted with large, easily recognizable black and white "invasion stripes" on their fuselages and wings. Nevertheless, navy gunners shot down six British troop carrier aircraft flying in a 50-ship serial on 7 June, as the final glider serials of NEPTUNE flew to their LZs.
 

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Reply #44 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 5:10pm

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I'm reasonably sure that the other type of invason stripes were different to the Overlord stripes, but I can't find a photo just now. In fact I'm sure these were Theater type stripes and were in other coloures as well as black and white.
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I'm not sure this is quite correct Tempest. Invasion markings were certanly used on aircraft in the Sicily campaign in July 1943. This is besides the point. The question is - once aircraft in the ETO were painted with "D-Day" stripes were they ever removed & if so, when? 

Invasion stripes on Overlord aircraft were partially removed in July 1944 and fully in Jan 1945. Newly delivered aircraft in this period often did not have any stripes applied at all.
I'm not saying I'm correct or that anyone else is wrong or rigth, but I should point out that the caption with that photo says:
Quote:
A Seafire battles the mud at a repair and salvage unit in Normandy, July 1944

Anyway, whoever is right, I've enjoyed this little debate Wink Seafires are my "thing" at the moment and I'd love to find out more about this aircraft because as I said earlier, it would make a great subject for a model.
 

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Reply #45 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 5:19pm

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Tempest, going by what you say we all have to bow down and say the caption is correct. And as I said the only way to prove this is to get the guy who took the photo to verify that. Intill then it is perfectly possible to say that the caption is wrong. Your bit about the theatre stripes may well be true. But I must point out to you that the picture is in black and white. So the stripes could be any colour...

Anyway, Hagar has just brought up an interesting point with me. Maybe the SeafireII is being handed in and the aircraft in the distance are the squadrons replacement SeafireIII's. Then it would be perfectly reasonable for the photo to be in Normandy. But then we get back to the tin hat... Tongue
 

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Reply #46 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 5:25pm

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I've enjoyed it too although we don't seem to agree on this one. I've found out a lot of stuff about the Seafire I didn't know before. I suppose we will never know the answer to this particular question. Wink

I think that silly tin hat is a red herring myself. It could have come from anywhere & is not necessarily a clue. Roll Eyes

PS. Ozzy said the base in the photo is in France. He didn't specify Normandy & France is a big country. It's quite possible it's a temporary MU set up for distributing new types to the squadrons.
 

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Reply #47 - Mar 9th, 2004 at 6:27pm

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i think.. i think its a plane. a prop plane of the fighter variety. hah.

dano  Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #48 - Mar 11th, 2004 at 12:57pm

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It's definately not a Spitfire as the ends of the wings are square cut so there for its a clipper. Any brownie points?? Cant say any more than that. Sam Grin
 

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Reply #49 - Mar 12th, 2004 at 7:54am

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Quote:
It's definately not a Spitfire as the ends of the wings are square cut so there for its a clipper. Any brownie points?? Cant say any more than that. Sam Grin

You're right, it's not a Spitfire, it's a Seafire Wink Sorry no brownie points though. Oh, and lots Spits had clipped wings Wink Grin
 

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Reply #50 - Mar 13th, 2004 at 6:07pm

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What's the difference between a spitfire and a seafire then as thel both look very similar! Sam Smiley
 

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Reply #51 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 7:00am

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Quote:
What's the difference between a spitfire and a seafire then as thel both look very similar! Sam Smiley

Essentially they are the same, however the Seafire has been Navalised. It has an arrestor hook, strengthened rear fuselage and catapult spools fitted. Some also had anchor points for RATO packs.
The first Seafire, the MkIb was a modified Spitfire MkVb. It had no wing fold. The first purpose built Seafire was the MkIIc. Still no folding wing but had all the other Navalisation fittings. The first folding wing variation was the L MkIIIc. The first Griffon Seafire was the MkXV and this was based upon the MkXII. These are the only variations that saw service during WW2.
The Seafire in the photo is a MkIIc. Although you cannot see the arrestor hook, it clearly has a six-stack exhaust and a clipped C wing and these features make it a IIc.
Hope that clears it up a bit Wink
 

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Reply #52 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 9:51am

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Hope I'm not adding to the confusion. Here's a photo of a Seafire L MkIIIc. Note the arrester hook, clipped wingtips & 4 bladed prop.

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Reply #53 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 3:00pm

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Nice try Hagar old chap Wink I'm 99.9% certain that is a IIc. Let me explain. Later clipped IIcs had Four bladed props. Also, it is thought that all IIIs were built without Cannon stubs and you can clearly see these on your photo. However I have a picture here of Seafire MkLIIIc LR838 with cannon stubs and a picture of NF547 with clipped wings and I am led to understand that all III had full wings??? I love this aircraft Grin
Keep the theories coming guys as I am really into Seafires just now and am looking for information for a couple of modelling projects.
« Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2004 at 5:07am by HawkerTempest5 »  

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Reply #54 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 3:18pm

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LOL Maybe you're right Tempest. I ain't no expert on Seafires but I'm learning more every day. Wink

Not sure where I found that pic now. I'm sure the caption says it's a MkIII. Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #55 - Mar 14th, 2004 at 3:35pm

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I found the page. It definitely says it's a Mk III.
http://www.supermarine-spitfire.co.uk/supermarine_seafire.html
Maybe one of the Westland-built hybrid variants with the Merlin 55 but without folding wings. I believe these were later redesignated as MkII.

Meanwhile, here's another nice pic. Taken on HMS Formidable in Jan 1943. I keep meaning to ask Pip what happened to the one one he used as a sig before he went all patriotic. Wink

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Reply #56 - Mar 15th, 2004 at 5:14am

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Hagar old chap, you are quite correct about the Hybrid IIIcs and that may well explain the first pic. That photo you just posted is of some real value to me. The Seafire in the forground on the left is MkIb MB345, the subject of my first Seafire model Grin Notice how the second aircraft has the full 885 NAS squadron codes and the other two just have the aircraft letter. That looks like a nasty hole in the engine cover on MB345, wounder what that is?
 

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Reply #57 - Mar 15th, 2004 at 6:07am

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Quote:
Hagar old chap, you are quite correct about the Hybrid IIIcs and that may well explain the first pic. That photo you just posted is of some real value to me. The Seafire in the forground on the left is MkIb MB345, the subject of my first Seafire model Grin

Well how about that. Glad to help. Cheesy

Quote:
Notice how the second aircraft has the full 885 NAS squadron codes and the other two just have the aircraft letter. That looks like a nasty hole in the engine cover on MB345, wounder what that is?

I did spot the difference in codes but missed the big hole. That looks a tad too close for comfort. Shocked LOL
 

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Reply #58 - Mar 15th, 2004 at 5:03pm

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Thanks for all the info, i'll share it with my mate who's a bit of a spitfire fanatic. Cheers for all the help guys. Sam Cheesy
 

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