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747-400 appr landing (Read 430 times)
Feb 3rd, 2004 at 7:34pm

YSBKpilot   Offline
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Hello all.

After flying the 737 for many many hours, i took the 747 for a flight from YSSY - YMML.  Firstly, i could not find the TOGA switch for the TO, so i did a manual TO.  on final, when i have given clearance from melbourne tower, my plane seems to always land far left of the centreline even though my approach looks great.  i try the same flight with the 737 and have perfect ILS landings on the piano keys.

my 747 landing configuration:

IAS: 180kts
flaps: 30 degress
spoilers: armed
gear: down
autobrakes: 3

autopilot settings: appr, speed, A/T.

Manually landing the 747 is even more of a distaster.   How do I achieve a good landing with a 747?
 
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Reply #1 - Feb 3rd, 2004 at 11:29pm

cerphr   Offline
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Are you locking the tailwheel?

hehe  Wink

sorry... couldn't resist.
 
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Reply #2 - Feb 5th, 2004 at 4:54am

Poseidon   Offline
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I am no very familiar with 747 ( I mostly fly 737 as well) but I think the 180 knots are too much. Maybe you are going too fast and the autopilot does not have the time to align.
 
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Reply #3 - Feb 19th, 2004 at 11:40am

IanK   Offline
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Hello,
DL 747-200 manuals from here:
Aircraft Performance Data
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/hsors/FS_Soft/acftdata.html

HTH

I have the hard copy TM and FM for the -400 at home but that may be no more use. Cross winds?

Vapp is a function of weight and it is easy to land above max landing weight by mistake so don't go on short trips at max weight.


Ian
 
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Reply #4 - Feb 19th, 2004 at 5:35pm

YSBKpilot   Offline
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Thanks Ian

 
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Reply #5 - Feb 19th, 2004 at 9:07pm
Saratoga   Ex Member

 
180 knots at 30 flaps? no flaps for you, they'd be long gone in reality. Try 130-150, depending on fuel settings. I have flown a 747-400 to 100knots before, but it's not a good speed for landing, can really cause a disaster, just a little too much up trim and BAM, outta the sky you go. Lol. Manual landings are easy. Hit W once or adjust your seat height. Use the Autothrottle to make speed easier, set for 140 knots (because we know how good it is at keeping speeds Tongue), follow the red/white lights (VASI) to the runway. SHould have two red/two white at all times. Just glide her on down, keeping a check on your gauges. At touchdown, check Autothrottle off, full reverse, spoilers out, brakes on, flaps up. IN THAT ORDER. 747s can be stopped in 2000 feet if you do it right. Careful though, she can be a mean mother. Wink
 
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Reply #6 - Feb 19th, 2004 at 9:21pm

Nexus   Offline
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Around 150 knots for landing seems likely for a 747.
At max. landing weight, the vref for the 747 is about 155kts?
So listen to Saratogas' advice and reduce the speed!

But keep in mind though, 747-pilots rarely fly the vref speed during the whole approach, they establish that speed rather late. since vref is just 1.3 times the stallspeed  Roll Eyes

It's amazing how easy that big aircraft is to land, compared to the smaller birds Smiley
 
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Reply #7 - Feb 19th, 2004 at 9:52pm
Saratoga   Ex Member

 
Yes, due to the large amount of traffic at most airports you would find a 747 at in reality, (for example, at DFW international, near my house, planes often land before the otehr is off the runway in front of them), pilots would be flying fast, 150-180, depending on the conditions, then slowing down suddenly and quickly on final approach to Vref. Vref at maximum weight is around 160ish in a 747, but since you should never be landing at max weight (even if you came straight back to the airport, you would dump fuel), the acutal speed is around 130ish (right for a 747 at the lower fuel range).
 
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Reply #8 - Feb 19th, 2004 at 10:02pm

Nexus   Offline
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all airliners can land even at MTOW with no problems at all...they just need a security check afterwards.I've seen a 737 done an emergency landing  when weight was way above max. landing weight. The 737 can't dump fuel so they had no choice...the aircraft has to make it Smiley

AND, I wrote maxmimun LANDING weight, not TAKE OFF weight, why dump fuel when weight is below MLW?
 
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Reply #9 - Feb 19th, 2004 at 10:05pm
Saratoga   Ex Member

 
It's standard procedure in airliners. If fuel dump is available, you dump fuel. Lighter=slower. Less fuel=Less chance of explosion should something go to hell and the plane end up skidding or something like that.
 
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Reply #10 - Feb 19th, 2004 at 10:23pm

Nexus   Offline
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where did my message go?
Argh, anyways, dumping fuel is more of a concern for heavies like the 747 we're talking about in this thread Smiley


The 737 can land at MTOW, and that's often the case on all narrow bodies. No emergency has to be called out.
Dumping fuel costs money, most be really popular at the airline's head office Cheesy
 
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Reply #11 - Feb 20th, 2004 at 10:18pm
Saratoga   Ex Member

 
*corrects himself* Previous message: Dumping fuel in EMERGENCIES is standard procedure. Sorry. Tongue
 
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Reply #12 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 9:25pm

YSBKpilot   Offline
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nice, 140kts and great landings.  flew YSSY - YSCB, did a manual appr and textbook landing.  don't think i stopped in 2000ft though.

as for the fuel discussion, 23% on all tanks. 

 
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Reply #13 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 9:31pm
Saratoga   Ex Member

 
2000 feet in a 747? Child's play. Wink
 
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Reply #14 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 10:25pm

Nexus   Offline
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YSBKpilot, don't hang your head.  Smiley
Even with autobrakes at MAX (which would also wallpaper your face on the windshield...) it's highly unlikely you'd be able to stop that thing in less than 5000ft, and that goes for PERFECT conditions; dry runway, 15C temp @ sea level...

Just proves that the default airfiles and overall aircraft behaviours in the simulator is not realistic at all  Undecided
Darn it Microsoft, please do you homework next time.....

Stopping a jumbo in just 2000ft is simply impossible.
 
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