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Thunderbird going down! (Read 2061 times)
Jan 31st, 2004 at 5:10am

Mr. Bones   Offline
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you all probably know that on September 14 last year, a Thunderbird 6 crashed at Mountain-Home during an airshow. well i found a really interesting shot about this crash...hope you like it...i sure do!

...


the full size image can be found here: http://www.af.mil/media/photodb/photos/040130-F-0000C-002.jpg
 

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Reply #1 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 9:01am

Omag 2.0   Offline
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Ouch, costly crash!

Reminds me off a documentary on National geografic channel  about an accident with two Russian SU-something jets ( the ones that come to a stop in midair) on an airshow. it demonstrated the fabulous ejectionseats they had created. Impressive.
 

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Reply #2 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 9:24am

Mr. Bones   Offline
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Quote:
Ouch, costly crash!

Reminds me off a documentary on National geografic channel  about an accident with two Russian SU-something jets ( the ones that come to a stop in midair) on an airshow. it demonstrated the fabulous ejectionseats they had created. Impressive.

yes Omag, i've seen that too. it were two Mig-29's at Fairford.
 

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Reply #3 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 10:36am

Scottler   Offline
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Wow....

I saw the T-birds perform just a few weeks prior to this incident.  So glad the pilot was uninjured.
 

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Reply #4 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 5:11pm

Crumbso   Offline
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i was there when the 2 Migs crashed very saddening until I found out both pilots unharmed and no-one hurt. Now I think it was very impressive I got pyrotechnics and a live demo of ejection seats.
 
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Reply #5 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 5:11pm

Crumbso   Offline
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i was there when the 2 Migs crashed very saddening until I found out both pilots unharmed and no-one hurt. Now I think it was very impressive I got pyrotechnics and a live demo of ejection seats.
 
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Reply #6 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 9:03pm

Politically Incorrect   Offline
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Unbelivable!!!
Judgeing from the shot he was extremly close too the ground! Not too much time to think!
Were any spectators injured?
 
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Reply #7 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 9:30pm

Jared   Offline
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wow! That's a VERY good shot, thanks for sharing it with us!
 
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Reply #8 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 10:38pm

737NGCapt   Offline
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Incase you haven't heard:

LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE, Va. -- Pilot error caused a U.S. Air Force
Thunderbirds
F-16 aircraft to crash shortly after takeoff at an air show Sept. 14 at
Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho. The pilot ejected just before the
aircraft
impacted the ground.

According to the accident investigation board report released today, the
pilot
misinterpreted the altitude required to complete the "Split S" maneuver.
He
made his calculation based on an incorrect mean-sea-level altitude of
the
airfield. The pilot incorrectly climbed to 1670 feet above ground level
instead
of 2500 feet before initiating the pull down to the Split S maneuver.

When he realized something was wrong, the pilot put maximum back stick
pressure
and rolled slightly left to ensure the aircraft would impact away from
the
crowd should he have to eject. He ejected when the aircraft was 140 feet
above
ground -- just eight--tenths of a second prior to impact.

He sustained only minor injuries from the ejection. There was no other
damage
to military or civilian property.

The aircraft, valued at about $20.4 million, was destroyed.

Also, the board determined other factors substantially contributed to
creating
the opportunity for the error including the requirement for
demonstration
pilots to convert mean sea level and above ground level altitudes and
performing a maneuver with a limited margin of error.


(i'm not sure if that's all of the report, or of it's source, it was sent in an e-mail and could have been cut off)
 
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Reply #9 - Feb 1st, 2004 at 5:23am

Politically Incorrect   Offline
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At least he was quick thinking enough to be sure the plane would crash away from the crowd!
 
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Reply #10 - Feb 1st, 2004 at 3:49pm

Mr. Bones   Offline
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today i found a video from inside the cockpit during the last seconds of his flight...if you want, i'll post that too!  Wink
 

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Reply #11 - Feb 1st, 2004 at 8:40pm

Scottler   Offline
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That would definitely be interesting to see...
 

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Reply #12 - Feb 2nd, 2004 at 4:45am

Mr. Bones   Offline
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here it is: http://www.avweb.com/newspics/tbirdcrash.mpg

if you keep an eye on the pilot closely, you'll see he doesn't panic or doesn't overreact. he just keeps sitting there like there's nothing wrong and suddenly he's gone. this shows how fast those people have to take that decision  8)
 

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Reply #13 - Feb 2nd, 2004 at 6:06am

C   Offline
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He's looking quite calm and collected in that shot too Smiley

I wonder if the cameraman was? (I hope he was using a long telephoto lens...

Also I believe the Mig crash at Fairford (nearly 10 years ago!) was made more "fun" by the fisticuffs that followed...

Charlie
 
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Reply #14 - Feb 3rd, 2004 at 1:56pm

N505AF   Offline
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Ha a pic of my base,  I was at that airshow.  I got out of weekend duty to go that week end, good show up tell that point.
 
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Reply #15 - Feb 3rd, 2004 at 10:42pm

Jaffa   Offline
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Was he punished for whhat happened, or can people make mistakes in the military also?

Hope he wasn't punished! Wink Cheesy
 
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Reply #16 - Feb 4th, 2004 at 2:12am

N505AF   Offline
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nope hes back up an flying again
 
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Reply #17 - Feb 4th, 2004 at 12:29pm

Mr. Bones   Offline
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strange he's flying in the squad again. first of all it was 100% pilot error (his altimeter was set wrong as i've been told) so he blew up 20 million USD. perhaps this was his first year with the squad (normally they fly there two seasons)  Wink
 

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Reply #18 - Feb 4th, 2004 at 5:22pm

Scottler   Offline
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I think the fact that Captain Stricklin steered his aircraft away from 60,000 people and then still had the presence of mind to try until the last .8 of a second to regain control of the aircraft would probably overpower any poor light the Air Force may want to shed on him.
 

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Reply #19 - Feb 4th, 2004 at 5:31pm

N505AF   Offline
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No what was really kick @$$ about the whole thing was he got right up an waved at everyone after the crash an then he fell on his face.  the aircraft went down in front of where I was standing...  Almost all the screen savers on base right now are of him ejecting from his AC.  We felt bad for the pilots from our base the next day because the had a nice black whole in the ground to look at as they took off an landed.. Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #20 - Feb 4th, 2004 at 5:39pm

Scottler   Offline
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Quote:
No what was really kick @$$ about the whole thing was he got right up an waved at everyone after the crash an then he fell on his face.


I don't necessarily know if I'd call the human body in shock and then violently responding to trauma "kick ass", but whatever...
 

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Reply #21 - Feb 4th, 2004 at 10:01pm

Jaffa   Offline
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Ejecting is no easy business and can cause very serious damage to the human body!  Has anyone ever heard about the pilot who punched out of his F-15 at over mach 1?  He almost, literally, lost a leg.  It was only still attached by a ligament(or maybe muscle).  Not to mention hard landings.

Glad to hear he is up and soaring again! Cheesy

(in a new craft) Grin
 
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Reply #22 - Feb 5th, 2004 at 1:26pm

Mr. Bones   Offline
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thatswhy figther pilots must have a strong back and neck.
 

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Reply #23 - Feb 5th, 2004 at 8:05pm

Scottler   Offline
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And ba77s of steel!
 

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Reply #24 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 5:54am

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I saw the T-Birds perform in Salinas California about one month after the crash.  They flew an abreviated performance as they only had 5 aircraft perform that day.  I was rather disappointed as I figured they would just use one of the back-up, or trainer jets for the show.  But I assume that pilot did not get right back into the air after the accident so maybe thats why only 5 planes flew that day.  I mean had he been killed, that would be a different story, but I thought maybe he'd just fly the performance in another plane...assuming, like the Blue Angels they have at least one or two "extra" jets in the fleet.
 

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Reply #25 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 9:25am

C   Offline
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Generally the reason teams will perform with n aircraft missing is crew availability - ie if a team member is unfit to fly they'll fly a display based around what you can do without the missing aircraft. This happened to the Red Arrows a few years ago when one of the pilots slipped getting out of the aircraft and broke his ankle. Fortunately the team were able to re-jig the display with only eight aircraft.

Quote:
thatswhy figther pilots must have a strong back and neck.


From what I was told at thr RAF Av. Med cantre a few years back, a pilot loses an inch due to his/her spine compressing during the ejection, and will only get half of that back. I also seem to remember hearing that they operate a system where a pilot can only eject 3 times before he is medically discharged...

Charlie
 
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Reply #26 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 9:46am

Omag 2.0   Offline
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Quote:
He's looking quite calm and collected in that shot too Smiley


Guess he had no choice beeing shot out of that plane, beeing strapped tightly to the seat. Not a lot of room to move ...  Grin
 

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Reply #27 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 9:47am

Hagar   Offline
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I was reading in yesterday's Daily Mirror newpaper that this incident was due to pilot error & the pilot has been removed from flying duties. I'm not sure how true this is as I don't believe anything I read in the tabloids. Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #28 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 10:06am

C   Offline
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Quote:
I was reading in yesterday's Daily Mirror newpaper that this incident was due to pilot error & the pilot has been removed from flying duties. I'm not sure how true this is as I don't believe anything I read in the tabloids. Roll Eyes


Strange hows it's taken several months to get in the papers...

Anyway, it made it into the Express today. Apparently after bravely steering the aircraft away from the crowd (I seem to remeber from the video he was never really pointing at the crowd...) he "pressed the eject button" Smiley! . Made me chuckle Tongue . Have to find myself one of those eject button thingies for all those awkward situations I get into... Grin

Charlie
 
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Reply #29 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 10:24am

Mr. Bones   Offline
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Quote:
I saw the T-Birds perform in Salinas California about one month after the crash.  They flew an abreviated performance as they only had 5 aircraft perform that day.  I was rather disappointed as I figured they would just use one of the back-up, or trainer jets for the show.  But I assume that pilot did not get right back into the air after the accident so maybe thats why only 5 planes flew that day.  I mean had he been killed, that would be a different story, but I thought maybe he'd just fly the performance in another plane...assuming, like the Blue Angels they have at least one or two "extra" jets in the fleet.

the Thunderbirds don't have any spare pilots. the reason for this is quite simple. during winter (when they don't fly displays) each pilot must at least fly 120 hours to be able to complete a safe public demonstration...training spare pilots would cost alot of money and wouldn't be prudent.

they do have spare jets...at this moment, i believe they have 12 jets assigned to the squad.  Wink
 

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Reply #30 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 7:16pm

N505AF   Offline
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All of the f-16's the thunderbirds fly are stock AC the only thing they have on them are a smoke system.  Any f-16 in the airforce could replace one of the thunderbirds AC if need be.  The pilot of #6 didnt fly in the show after the crash because he was part of the crash investigation an there for was not aloud to leave the MtHome AFB.
 
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Reply #31 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 7:30pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Air Force blames pilot error for Thunderbirds crash in Idaho  Jan 22, 2004
A pilot's error caused a Thunderbirds F-16 to crash during a September air show in Idaho, the Air Force said Wednesday ... "He made an honest mistake," McSpadden told a news conference at Nellis Air Force Base, the Thunderbirds' training home near Las Vegas ... Stricklin, 31, remains a pilot, McSpadden said, but because of the error he was reassigned last month to the Pentagon outside Washington, D.C., without completing his two-year stint with the Thunderbirds. (SFGate.com -- Accidents Breaking News)

http://military.surfwax.com/files/Thunderbirds_Planes.html
 

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Reply #32 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 8:39pm

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Quote:
the Thunderbirds don't have any spare pilots. the reason for this is quite simple. during winter (when they don't fly displays) each pilot must at least fly 120 hours to be able to complete a safe public demonstration...training spare pilots would cost alot of money and wouldn't be prudent.

they do have spare jets...at this moment, i believe they have 12 jets assigned to the squad.  Wink


That was exactly my point.  If the pilot had been killed, yeah I'd expect a performance without his replacement IF there was to be a performance at all.  I was saying, I was rather surprised that he didn't just fly a replacement aircraft.  But then again, I can see how he may have been grounded for the rest of the season due to investigation etc...

Quote:
All of the f-16's the thunderbirds fly are stock AC the only thing they have on them are a smoke system.  Any f-16 in the airforce could replace one of the thunderbirds AC if need be.  The pilot of #6 didnt fly in the show after the crash because he was part of the crash investigation an there for was not aloud to leave the MtHome AFB.


I know for the Blue Angels their aircraft can be converted and combat ready in 72 hours.  I'd assume the same for the Thunderbirds. 
 

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Reply #33 - Feb 6th, 2004 at 10:16pm

Jaffa   Offline
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Here is a quote:

" The Thunderbirds commander, Lt. Col. Richard McSpadden, said Stricklin had one year remaining on his assignment with the team but was transferred about a month ago to a Pentagon assignment near Washington, D.C., and eventually will be returned to flying status with another unit.

"He came in here and made an honest mistake," McSpadden said, adding that Stricklin is a "very disciplined pilot and a very talented pilot." "


" The six-member Air Force accident investigation board attributed the pilot's error in part to Stricklin's "habit pattern when he flies the maneuver at Nellis." "



 
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Reply #34 - Feb 7th, 2004 at 4:22am

Mr. Bones   Offline
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yes, the difference between a T-Bird falcon and a normal F-16 isn't that big. like the Blues, it takes 72 hours to make them combat ready. i think it would be strange if you see a T-Bird doing a dogfight with a MiG.

here's what i found about it:
Quote:
Including the Thunderbird Red, Thunderbird White and Thunderbird Blue paint scheme, there are actually very few modifications to a Thunderbird aircraft. Thunderbird F-16s have the 20mm cannon and ammunition drum removed to accommodate the smoke oil drum. Also, a smoke oil plumbing line that runs from the smoke oil drum to the exhaust has been installed. The dogfight switch on the throttle has been rewired to accommodate a smoke oil on/off switch and a stopwatch has been added to each cockpit for timing. Otherwise, the aircraft that the squadron flies are the same as those in the Air Force. Each Thunderbird aircraft is able to return to combat status within 72 hours.
 

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Reply #35 - Feb 9th, 2004 at 7:53pm

Crumbso   Offline
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Well I believe if he can't be disciplined enough to not set his altimeter wrong out of "Habit" he shouldn't be in a good display team. The Reds pilots would never do such a thing.
 
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Reply #36 - Feb 9th, 2004 at 9:24pm

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I'd that he/she was using a long telephoto (At least 300mm) because even on a bright day like that one it still has pretty shallow depth of field. He/she must have been using a fast continuous film advance of at least 8 fps to take a picture like that because no-one has good enough reflexes to do it without that kind of speed.
 

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Reply #37 - Feb 9th, 2004 at 9:43pm

Scottler   Offline
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Sometimes the best shots are taken accidentally. Wink
 

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Reply #38 - Feb 10th, 2004 at 3:15am

N505AF   Offline
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The pitcher was taken accidentally, my friend knows the guy here on base that took it.  He said he was just trying to get a pitcher of the jet before it went down.  The pitcher was taken from the control tower.
 
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Reply #39 - Feb 10th, 2004 at 3:22am

N505AF   Offline
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Quote:
Well I believe if he can't be disciplined enough to not set his altimeter wrong out of "Habit" he shouldn't be in a good display team. The Reds pilots would never do such a thing.

Oh yeah an pilots are human to, they F*#k up more than you will ever want to know.  It takes a college degree to fly a jet an a high school diploma to fix one...  An working on them is a lot harder than flying them.
 
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Reply #40 - Feb 10th, 2004 at 6:07am

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Quote:
Well I believe if he can't be disciplined enough to not set his altimeter wrong out of "Habit" he shouldn't be in a good display team. The Reds pilots would never do such a thing.

As N505AF points out, pilots are human beings & not supermen. No matter how professional they might be, all humans make mistakes. Usually they get away with it without anybody noticing. In this case it happened at a public display with the loss of an expensive piece of machinery. Fortunately it appears that nobody was hurt. It seems reasonable to expect that the pilot would be disciplined & no longer be allowed to fly with the display team.

I still think that is an amazing shot. A chance in a lifetime for the photographer. Wink
 

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Reply #41 - Feb 10th, 2004 at 8:39am

Mr. Bones   Offline
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yes they are humans but they are also the best pilots in the USAF...it's an honour if you can fly in the Thunderbirds. now it happened and we can't change that. thank god no people were killed...ok, a plane distroyed but i don't think the USAF doesn't really care about "just" 20 million USD...
 

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Reply #42 - Feb 10th, 2004 at 8:00pm

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Yah I know that but there is mental trauma that can result from this. As a psychology student I have studied trauma and flying with them again after this may have serious effects. They are trained to steer the aircraft away from the crowd and that is good.

I just find not setting an altimeter rather careless.

the Thunerbirds are supposed to be renouned throughout the USA and deserve extremely careful highly trained pilots. So please don't swear at me, thankyou Smiley
 
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Reply #43 - Mar 1st, 2004 at 12:50pm

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i just cant believe how fast he ejected.  Shocked he seemed to be just fine in the film clip... although all info shows otherwise.. .but damn that was FAST!!!! Shocked i suppose that the training just takes over... i doubt if anyone would have had time to comprehend what the heck was happening.
 
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