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Leaving the Cockpit open (Read 1965 times)
Jan 29th, 2004 at 10:31am

Wing Nut   Offline
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I always thought they did that on Warbirds because it got too hot or too cramped.  Then I found this in the Spitfire Pilot's notes...

(iii) When the rear fuselage tanks are full the aircraft pitches upon becoming airborne and it is recommended the undercarriage should not be retracted, nor the sliding hood closed, until a height of 100 ft has been reached.

I wondered why they got away with that.  I can understand the gear, but why the canopy?  BTW, why are these British measurements given in standard instead of metric?
 
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Reply #1 - Jan 29th, 2004 at 11:29am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
I always thought they did that on Warbirds because it got too hot or too cramped.  Then I found this in the Spitfire Pilot's notes...

(iii) When the rear fuselage tanks are full the aircraft pitches upon becoming airborne and it is recommended the undercarriage should not be retracted, nor the sliding hood closed, until a height of 100 ft has been reached.

I wondered why they got away with that.  I can understand the gear, but why the canopy?  

You don't say which Mark of Spitfire but I assume it's an early one. Plenty of things are done in wartime which wouldn't be acceptable in peacetime or in civil aviation. I haven't seen this reason mentioned before. I always understood the canopy was left open during take-off & landing for improved visibility & to prevent it misting up.

Quote:
BTW, why are these British measurements given in standard instead of metric?

Which measurements are you referring to? I would expect all measurements in a manual for the Spitfire (or any other British aircraft) to be Imperial. Feet is the international standard for altitude still in use today.

Britain has used the Imperial system for centuries & officially "went metric" only recently, within the last 5 years or so. We still use mph & beer is sold in pints. Many industries still use the Imperial system & existing documents would not generally be updated, especially for vintage types. I worked in the aircraft industry for 40 years & all maintenance manuals, drawings & documents I dealt with used Imperial measurements.
 
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Reply #2 - Jan 29th, 2004 at 12:51pm

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Hmmm, sounds like MkII pilots notes to me. As I understand it the problems were various;
aircraft balance with inexperience pilots (remember this was a new plane at the time), led to pogo-ing (good idea to have the undercarriage down!).
fumes, to vent the cockpit fully in case of fumes from spilt fuel (remember electrical switches and petrol fumes don't mix well children Wink Grin Shocked Tongue) So don't flick the switch till you're sure Wink
bowel gases, again to fumigate the cockpit Roll Eyes Grin Grin Grin
And as Hagar says, visibility. If you read Mr. Quills Spitfire A Test Pilots Story, when he actually spends time fighting with a Spitfire Sqn. one of the first things he notices that needed changing was the front side glasses of the canopy to flat rather than curved perspex, as it distorted vision terribly, which on the ground in proximity to lots of other expensive flying toys and their pilots Shocked Shocked Shocked 'nuff said Wink
Think thats everything.....

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Reply #3 - Jan 29th, 2004 at 1:29pm

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It's from 'Pilot's Notes for Spitfire IX, XI, and XVI' pp 39...  It's one of the items I was telling you about, Mark.
 
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Reply #4 - Jan 29th, 2004 at 1:37pm

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Didn't I read somewhere that the P-51D had exactly the same problem? The pilots never liked that rear tank & the experienced ones emptied it ASAP - against standing instructions.
 
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Reply #5 - Jan 29th, 2004 at 1:38pm

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Ahhh, right that is the fumes issue Wink
The electrical UC switch would arc, and you don't want an electrical spark in a nice enviroment of fuel and air now Grin Not unless you want to say goodbye to your eyebrows Shocked
 
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Reply #6 - Jan 29th, 2004 at 1:43pm

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Hagar with the P-51D it was a CoG issue. It really screwed it up for combat, so pilots used to use that tank first against SOPs so that when they finally got to meet up with the Messerschmidts and Focke-Wulfs their planes handled like fighters not buses Grin

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Reply #7 - Jan 29th, 2004 at 1:46pm

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Ozzy. I know I've read about a similar fumes problem on a US fighter. If it wasn't the P-51 it might have been the P-40.
 
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Reply #8 - Jan 29th, 2004 at 1:52pm

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I do believe you're right. I haven't heard of fume problems on the 51, but I recall reading something about the 40. The person to ask would of course be our resident P-40 guru Brensec Smiley
 
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Reply #9 - Jan 29th, 2004 at 5:13pm

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Quote:
Ahhh, right that is the fumes issue Wink
The electrical UC switch would arc, and you don't want an electrical spark in a nice enviroment of fuel and air now Grin Not unless you want to say goodbye to your eyebrows Shocked

Is this the Spit or the P-51? I'm not sure the Spitfire had an electric U/C switch. The gear was originally operated by a manual handpump & I assumed this was modified with a selector lever of some sort to operate a valve on the hydraulic system.
 
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Reply #10 - Jan 30th, 2004 at 11:45am

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The 51 I was talking about there Hagar, sorry I should have clarified that one Roll Eyes
I think it was only after the XIV that Spits had the electrical switch, but I'll go and look it up later when I've had a cup of tea Grin
As you stated before that it was hydraulic pump time. I'd have loved to have seen the yoyo effect of trying to do the hand pump. That has to have been funny Grin Grin Grin
 
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Reply #11 - Jan 30th, 2004 at 12:07pm

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Quote:
The 51 I was talking about there Hagar, sorry I should have clarified that one Roll Eyes
I think it was only after the XIV that Spits had the electrical switch, but I'll go and look it up later when I've had a cup of tea Grin

I'm sure all Spitfires had hydraulically operated gear. The pump was engine-driven & simply replaced the original manual handpump. No electrics involved*. AFAIK

Quote:
As you stated before that it was hydraulic pump time. I'd have loved to have seen the yoyo effect of trying to do the hand pump. That has to have been funny Grin Grin Grin

I've seen the yo-yo effect demonstrated by a Nord N.1000 "Pingouin" (Bf 108 Taifun) on the UK display circuit - although obviously in the hands of an experienced pilot.

*PS. There is some sort of electrical cable conduit attached to the undercarriage selector on the Spitfire Mk IX. I can only assume this is connected to a warning or indicator light. When I next get close enough to a Spit I shall make it my business to find out & also take some photos. Wink
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_avsafety/documents/page/dft_avsafety_5...
« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2004 at 5:15pm by Hagar »  
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Reply #12 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 6:13pm
Flt.Lt.Andrew   Ex Member

 
Hagar, did you ever fly a spitfire?
I've been trying desparatly to find somone who has...

Bezz
 
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Reply #13 - Feb 1st, 2004 at 3:37am

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One of our members here got a ride in one as a kid Andrew. I think it might have been Brensec..... Not sure though, I haven't had my morning cup of tea yet, so the braincell isn't up and running!

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Reply #14 - Feb 1st, 2004 at 7:42am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Hagar, did you ever fly a spitfire?
I've been trying desparatly to find somone who has...

Bezz

Unfortunately no - or any other WWII fighter come to that. This is one ambition that doesn't seem likely now. Sad
Brensec did have a flight in a 2-seater some years ago.

PS. There are definitely electrical connections in that Mk IX U/C selector unit. I have no idea what they are for. I shall find out.
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