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Is Mars Ours? (Read 1382 times)
Jan 8th, 2004 at 6:23pm

Katahu   Offline
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This article really got me convinced.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2093579/

After reading this article, ask yourself this: Is Mars ours for the taking?

Most of us would think so. Me included.

PS: No Flame wars, please.
 
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Reply #1 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 6:35pm

Hagar   Offline
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In the "good old days" it was yours if you stuck a flag in it before any other "civilised" nation. This is how the British Empire was built. Didn't matter if anyone happened to be living there at the time. You simply killed them off or forced them into submission. The same happened in America. I thought things had changed a little since then. Roll Eyes

You can have Mars if you want it as far as I'm concerned. Personally speaking, I have no use for it. Tongue Wink
 

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Reply #2 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 7:07pm

Paz   Offline
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  I guess that as long as there is no one on the planet to dispute us calling it ours, then it can be ours if we want it, someday in the very distant future we (Earth) will probably consider ourselves owners of the whole solar system, unless we run into someone that wants to defend their planet.
 

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Reply #3 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 8:15pm

JBaymore   Offline
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Quote:
 I guess that as long as there is no one on the planet to dispute us calling it ours, then it can be ours if we want it, someday in the very distant future we (Earth) will probably consider ourselves owners of the whole solar system, unless we run into someone that wants to defend their planet.


With this little discussion I find myself thinking of the recent movie "Independence Day".   Wink   

In a flight of fancy..... I have often wondered if life on Earth might have actually originated on Mars......... and in a very distant and long forgotten past we humans totally screwed up the environment of that planet through greed and overpopulation and fought wars that destroyed and poisoned the place.... and we then relocated a hop/skip/jump over here .........and started the whole mess again here. 


The pictures from the surface certainly ARE amazing.


best,

......................john
 

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Reply #4 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 9:04pm

Travis   Offline
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That article kinda gives me the creeps.

". . . mankind has a duty to terraform Mars . . ."

". . . we have a moral obligation . . ."

This kind of talk seems a bit overzealous, especially in light of the US being committed to peace and mutual respect on our planet.  If Americans are the only ones to colonize that planet, and in effect, claim it for ourselves, I believe there will be massive consequences.

And terraforming Mars isn't really necessary.  Why do it, when we have this pristine wilderness (although it is a desert) that we can study and learn from?

I am extremely concerned by this article.  Seems there is a race to Mars on very soon.

Reminds me of the race to the Moon in the 60s.  We were all wound up about beating the Russians there, and after all is said and done, the moon "belongs to everyone".  Seems to me that it should be that way with Mars as well.
 

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Reply #5 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 9:52pm

Loafing Smurf   Offline
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I'm pretty sure there are international laws that forbid a country to own planets. That being a law, I think there are individuals that are purchasing pieces of land on planets besides Earth.
 
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Reply #6 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 11:21pm

Travis   Offline
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure there are international laws that forbid a country to own planets. That being a law, I think there are individuals that are purchasing pieces of land on planets besides Earth.


Very true.  In fact, it is possible to buy a plot on the moon right now.  Very strange, if you ask me.  IE - how do you know you'll be alive to see it?  Seems like a waste of money to me . . .
 

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Reply #7 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 1:48am

Katahu   Offline
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Quote:
That article kinda gives me the creeps.

". . . mankind has a duty to terraform Mars . . ."

". . . we have a moral obligation . . ."

This kind of talk seems a bit overzealous, especially in light of the US being committed to peace and mutual respect on our planet.  If Americans are the only ones to colonize that planet, and in effect, claim it for ourselves, I believe there will be massive consequences.

And terraforming Mars isn't really necessary.  Why do it, when we have this pristine wilderness (although it is a desert) that we can study and learn from?

I am extremely concerned by this article.  Seems there is a race to Mars on very soon.

Reminds me of the race to the Moon in the 60s.  We were all wound up about beating the Russians there, and after all is said and done, the moon "belongs to everyone".  Seems to me that it should be that way with Mars as well.


The case with the moon might happen to Mars as well.

First, countries will race to it and whoever gets there first can claim it.

But after that, it will end up being immediately claimed as "everyone's planet". That's where private businesses and individuals will start buying pieces of land. I guess these people will then hand over their land down to their proper heirs through inheretance. Tongue

Or I could be wrong.
 
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Reply #8 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 4:33am

Delta_   Offline
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Owning the planet would be stupid, as we don't own this planet we just live on it and share it with others.  Nothing owns the moon we just landed there and put a flag on it.

Anyway the USSR (as it was known) landed on Mars and had a lander successfully land and last for all of 20 seconds on the surface.  This happened back in 1971.  
Th US did not manage to successully land on Mars until 1975.  Europe has yet to, beagle 2 being their first attempt.
 

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Reply #9 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 5:11am

Poseidon   Offline
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Just one phrase: "Expansionism without limits".
 
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Reply #10 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 6:45am

Delta_   Offline
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If the universe is infinite then there is no limits, only the idea that we may conflict with another life-form or ourselves and in-advertently all die is what stops us... oh and the lack of technology.
 

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Reply #11 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 8:00am

Polynomial   Offline
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as far as im concerned . . . . . stuff Mars.

Let us get our own planet nd affairs in order before even contemplating sending man there. . . . Robots I'm fine with.
 
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Reply #12 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 12:27pm

SilverFox441   Offline
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We can't get this planet in order without space industry.

Setting up a space industry is expensive, but negligible against the returns. Mankind is currently in a cage which is getting smaller. We have two choices, get out of the cage or suffocate.
 

Steve (Silver Fox) Daly
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Reply #13 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 12:29pm

pete   Offline
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By 'ours' I presume you are referring to 'planet earth' rather than the irrelevant national boundaries?

In my mind you cannot attach human possession to a planet. Remember ' A large step for mankind' & a planting of a flag did not claim the Moon as territory. There are many national flags on Everest - but it doesn't mean possession. These flags are a symbol of achievement in the name of a nation but no more.

& as for Planet Earth owning Mars! In my mind the best theory you could say about possession in space  would be that the star owns it's planets - & even that could only be said in jest.
 

Think Global. It's the world we live in.
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Reply #14 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 1:08pm

Hagar   Offline
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Leaving the question of possession aside for a moment I have a problem with whole idea that space exploration is necessary for our survival as SilverFox is suggesting. The real motives behind it are still very dubious to me as most projects on this scale have some military connection. The only people likely to benefit (if that is the correct word) from settlements on other planets would be government officials, "important" people, scientists or the very wealthy.

It would be impossible to carry out any form of resettlement on a large scale for the forseeable future. I have no idea of the intended or practical capacity of these so-called terra-forming projects. Even if this were possible, which is by no means certain, they could never support anything more than a tiny percentage of the population of Earth. The transportation logistitics alone are mind-boggling. So the question in my mind is, who decides on the ones to be "saved"? It's not likely to happen in my lifetime but I would rather stop here & take my chances.

I've felt strongly for a long time that the vast amounts of money, time & effort spent on space exploration would be better directed elsewhere. This planet is far from finished if we conserve our resources & stop polluting our environment. Unfortunately, due to human nature, this is not likely to happen. You would be faced with the same old problems wherever we settled.
 

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