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What's with the joy sticks? (Read 1226 times)
Jan 3rd, 2004 at 12:56pm

Scotch   Offline
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Greeting all,


What's with the joy sticks in real aircraft these days?  I notices that the Airbus A380 and the new Adam Aircraft's Carbonaero (picture) has joy sticks instead of a yoke.  Is this a new trend? Does that mean that the pilot will set in the right seat like in a helo?

Kevin "Scotch" McGlothlin
Denver


...
 

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Reply #1 - Jan 3rd, 2004 at 1:05pm

Craig.   Offline
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its just airbuses way of design really,and as you stated a couple of others since its all fly by wire theres no need for anything bigger, although i still like the yoke personally, no reason to change seats though
 
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Reply #2 - Jan 3rd, 2004 at 1:40pm

Mr. Bones   Offline
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the captain remains in the left seat! i know airbus pilots who like the joytick alot...they now have a small table and tons of space. others claim the yokes are more classic, nostalgic and for some they give a better feeling during flying. personally i wouldn't care if i was a pilot, as long as i can fly, doesn't matter if it's a stick or a yoke.  Wink
 

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Reply #3 - Jan 3rd, 2004 at 2:51pm

Fozzer   Offline
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Joysticks...
The thought of having a joystick between my legs* always makes my eyes water with the thought of a sudden stop, with my seat belt a little bit on the slack side... Shocked...!
I bet there are a lot of fighter pilots out there with high pitched voices... Roll Eyes...!

LOL...!

Paul,

*the long, wriggly thing, with a button on the end...
..now I am confused... Embarrassed...!
LOL...!
 

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Reply #4 - Jan 3rd, 2004 at 3:20pm

OTTOL   Offline
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......now THIS  is the point where the thread goes COMPLETELY off topic. Hey Paul, I'm guessing you have been riding bikes for quite some time. Have you ever noticed that most crashed bikes have a dent in the gas tank(trans./ Petrol tank  Cheesy ), in close proximity to the groin area. Around certain circles, here in the States, we call this the "telltale PEn1$ print". It's a sign that you were really excited about riding at the point that you crashed. .......all in bad good humor of course.  Embarrassed Roll Eyes

Pat 8)
 

.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......
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Reply #5 - Jan 3rd, 2004 at 4:44pm

Scotch   Offline
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I just rememberd the F-16's stick is to the right of the pilot and the throttol on the left but the F-18's is still in between the legs. Helo pilots set right seat so they don't have to take their hand off the cyclic to acess radio's etc. But that is a whole diffrent world of flying than General aviation or a bird as big as an air bus.

I would not mind flying with a stick but only in my right hand. It's the way I have been simming for years and would not like to have to re-train my brain to use my left hand. Personaly, should the Gods ever grant me a lottery winning I'd stick with a yoke... Pun inteneded.

Scotch
 

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Reply #6 - Jan 3rd, 2004 at 4:46pm

Hagar   Offline
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So then you experts. Why is it called a joystick?

I have fond memories of working at the flying club. As a young innocent lad of 17 it was one of my jobs to strap passengers into the aircraft. Many club members used to bring their girlfriends for a trip in our Tiger Moths at weekends. Just as the girls were about to sit down in the front seat the pilot would haul the stick back with the inevitable results. Squeals of delight & lots of laughter with my eyes popping out on stalks. Shocked
I then had to remove the joystick from the front cockpit, between their legs. This was a club rule. Happy days. Grin
 

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Reply #7 - Jan 4th, 2004 at 2:45am

Meinas   Ex Member
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I think it will feel weird flying with a joystick in my left hand, Im somewhat coordinated with the lefty but I wouldnt feel safe doing an approach
 
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Reply #8 - Jan 4th, 2004 at 6:53am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
I think it will feel weird flying with a joystick in my left hand, Im somewhat coordinated with the lefty but I wouldnt feel safe doing an approach

"Practice makes perfect" as the old adage goes. Wink
 

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Reply #9 - Jan 4th, 2004 at 4:29pm

loomex   Offline
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Quote:
Greeting all,


What's with the joy sticks in real aircraft these days?  I notices that the Airbus A380 and the new Adam Aircraft's Carbonaero (picture) has joy sticks instead of a yoke.  Is this a new trend? Does that mean that the pilot will set in the right seat like in a helo?

Kevin "Scotch" McGlothlin
Denver




This is a no-brainer guys! Over 90% of the new up and coming pilots played video games as kids, and what did they use? Thats right, a joystick!!
 

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Reply #10 - Jan 7th, 2004 at 1:37am

Travis   Offline
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Well, ever since I got my M$ Yoke and Pedals (last Christmas) I have been using them almost exclusively, except when I fly aircraft that actually have the stick.  Then I use my FF stick.  And it has made a difference!  I can now switch between the two with no trouble, even in midflight.

I might add that doing approaches left-handed on a stick is a cinch after about the third try.  Your body remembers the motions, but it does feel kinda strange.
 

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Reply #11 - Jan 7th, 2004 at 11:42am

Craig.   Offline
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whys it any differant to using the Yoke with your left hand? its just to the side thats all.
 
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Reply #12 - Jan 7th, 2004 at 11:59am

Hagar   Offline
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Bear in mind that the joysticks on the Airbus & similar fly-by-wire aircraft are shaped to fit whichever hand you use them with. As Craig points out, this would be similar to using a yoke with either hand. I imagine the position of the throttle control on the average gaming joystick would make it more difficult than on the real aircraft.
 

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Reply #13 - Jan 7th, 2004 at 7:12pm

Politically Incorrect   Offline
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I flew the new Diamond Star and it has joysticks. And I was amazed at how quick I got used to it after flying with a yoke!
It was allot more comfortable and your arms are in a more comfortable position.
I think the fact that i fly the sim with a stick made it a easier transition. In the Star the joystick is between your legs (for some of us it doesn't matter what your in it is between your legs:) )
I don't know how  i could fly with my left hand?
My force feedback like everyone else's is made for right handed use, so it is real uncomfortable flying left handed, but I try because I want to be able to fly either way because you never know when the time might come and your offered a chance to fly another plane!!
And I never refuse to fly!!!!!!!
 
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Reply #14 - Jan 7th, 2004 at 7:36pm

Hagar   Offline
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I've had this argument with left-handers in the past & will most likely do so again. Maybe OTTOL will confirm it but I never heard a pilot complain about the position of the controls on an aircraft. I worked for a flying school for 2 years & the fact that a pupil was left or right handed never occurred to me & I don't remember the subject cropping up.

The joysticks on most WWII RAF fighters had a "spade grip" which could be held comfortably with either hand. This was important on aircraft like the Spitfire where the pilot had to change hands on the stick just after taking off in order to raise the gear.
 

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Reply #15 - Jan 7th, 2004 at 8:04pm

Scotch   Offline
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I flew with a South Paw H-2 Pilot in the Navy and he loved setting in the right seat. He could do everything a right handed pilot could do AND write legable notes on his knee board w/o removing his right hand off the cyclic.

I think there were a couple if WWII fighter's with yokes but the P-38 and I think the Mosquito are the only two that comes to mind.  Oh, what about the......um... the one the Russians loved so much.

I'd rather have a yoke but if someone were to turn me lose on a Carbonaero I'm sure I'd adjust.
 

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Reply #16 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 3:41am

OTTOL   Offline
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Quote:
I've had this argument with left-handers in the past & will most likely do so again. Maybe OTTOL will confirm it but I never heard a pilot complain about the position of the controls on an aircraft. I worked for a flying school for 2 years & the fact that a pupil was left or right handed never occurred to me & I don't remember the subject cropping up.

The joysticks on most WWII RAF fighters had a "spade grip" which could be held comfortably with either hand. This was important on aircraft like the Spitfire where the pilot had to change hands on the stick just after taking off in order to raise the gear.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the good fortune to fly anything new enough to have a joystick. I have flown a Pitts(with the classic center mounted control stick)and the transition took, literally, seconds!  Similar issues have occured with yoke equipped aircraft though(dealing more with position of the pilot, not the controlling device). When training for the CFI, the biggest issue focused on, is the transition from left to right seat. After about five to ten hours though, it's back to buisness as usual. The same occured with transitioning BACK to the left seat in a jet after flying as a First Officer for 3 years. Again the transition was quick and painless. I think Loomex's point sums it up best. Most of us fly our computers with a joystick. Most of us are quickly able to adapt to change involving dextrous adaptation. I recently read that 80% or more of our manual flying skill is learned in the first 10-20 hours of flying. Obviously it doesn't take the body very long to learn some new tricks.
 

.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......
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Reply #17 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 4:26am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Unfortunately, I haven't had the good fortune to fly anything new enough to have a joystick. I have flown a Pitts(with the classic center mounted control stick)

The old-fashioned centre-mounted control stick is what I've always thought of as a joystick with regards to an aircraft. This was the origin of the term in the first place. I think that game controllers being commonly called joysticks causes some confusion. I'm almost sure there's a correct technical term for the control input devices used on modern fly-by-wire aircraft but I forget what that is. I've seen some that resemble the sticks on a R/C transmitter more than a gaming joystick.

I taxyed various types of light aircraft every working day for some 2 years & also flew them occasionally. Some had tandem cockpits where the controls were set up the same in both & others had side-by-side seating. Both types had a conventional joystick between the legs. I don't remember a problem with the left-hand seat in side-by-side trainers where the controls are basically reversed - with the throttle in the centre. As I always tell left-handers - they don't make left & right hand drive options for aircraft. You have to get used to what you're given.

If you think about it, the same applies to cars. When I've been in the US driving a car is like being in the left hand seat in an aircraft. It takes only a few minutes to get used to it.
 

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Reply #18 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 1:44pm

OTTOL   Offline
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Quote:
The old-fashioned centre-mounted control stick is what I've always thought of as a joystick with regards to an aircraft. This was the origin of the term in the first place. I think that game controllers being commonly called joysticks causes some confusion. I'm almost sure there's a correct technical term for the control input devices used on modern fly-by-wire aircraft but I forget what that is. I've seen some that resemble the sticks on a R/C transmitter more than a gaming joystick.
  Did someone say "bonnet"?   Once again culture throws a wrench in. I've always considered a "joystick" to be a short little plastic or composite controlling device, but then  again years ago I argued with my father that "conventional" meant tricycle gear as opposed to a tail wheel aircraft. Of course I later learned that I was wrong. But that was a matter of age. I grew up in an era when tricycle IS the conventional style. So I think THIS is a matter of Generational as well as geographically influenced syntax. I DO think that SCOTCH was referring to the current definition though(ref. his picture).
 

.....so I loaded up the plane and moved to Middle-EEEE..........OIL..that is......
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Reply #19 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 2:06pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
 Did someone say "bonnet"?   Once again culture throws a wrench in. I've always considered a "joystick" to be a short little plastic or composite controlling device, but then  again years ago I argued with my father that "conventional" meant tricycle gear as opposed to a tail wheel aircraft. Of course I later learned that I was wrong. But that was a matter of age. I grew up in an era when tricycle IS the conventional style. So I think THIS is a matter of Generational as well as geographically influenced syntax. I DO think that SCOTCH was referring to the current definition though(ref. his picture).

Hi OTTOL. I think you're missing my point. OK, I realise I'm a lot older than you & agree that might have something to do with it.  Tongue Wink

Aviation terms are pretty much international nowadays so there's no cultural difference as such. You've never known a time when a joystick only referred to the control stick in an aircraft. I can remember when the first light aircraft appeared featuring yokes instead of joysticks. I believe the first one I saw was a Cessna. These were combined with tricycle gear & many experienced pilots didn't like the idea at all. Some still don't. Roll Eyes

I know what Scotch is referring to & these might well be called joysticks now. I had an idea there is a different name but could be wrong. I was just attempting to distinguish beween these & gaming joysticks & make sure we're all talking about the same thing. Wink
 

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Reply #20 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 2:11pm

Craig.   Offline
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Hagar, most pilots who fly airbus aircraft call them sidesticks, so you are correct in believing they have a differant name. but i guess its just a personal preferance.
if i am missing some sort of sarcasm on your part, i appologise in advance:)
 
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Reply #21 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 2:17pm

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
Hagar, most pilots who fly airbus aircraft call them sidesticks, so you are correct in believing they have a differant name. but i guess its just a personal preferance.
if i am missing some sort of sarcasm on your part, i appologise in advance:)

Ah thanks Craig. That is indeed what they're called. Wink

I would hope that I'm never sarcastic. I might take a little pop at people sometimes but only in fun. Tongue Wink

PS. As I understand it, the term joystick originated during WWI.
Quote:
Even the word joystick, which is used more around computers these days, is actually an aircraft term. In early biplanes, the controller wasn't a steering wheel, it was an upright rod in the middle of the cockpit that controlled movement in three dimensions. It came up between the pilot's legs. The reason the they called it a joystick was because it was well, standing erect there right between the pilot's legs and gripped in a very similar way as if you had ahold of your, umm, you know, a joystick!

My point is that if this is correct, it would be wrong to call a sidestick a joystick. Wink
 

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