Well. Thanks to Pete we now have our new forum.
As I suggested the apparent solution I thought maybe I would post the first topic.

I've noticed that some code names for WWII top secret projects have a clue in the name itself to what they actually do. Now, asssuming that the idea of the code name is intended to fool the enemy I find this a little strange. I can only suppose that intellectuals think in a different way to us mere mortals. To be honest I know they do. Or maybe they're playing little games with each other. I've been re-reading "Most Secret War" by Professor R.V Jones & some old friends from his university days found themselves on opposite sides when war was declared.

I'll give you 2 examples. Maybe others can add more.

Knickebein. The code name for German radio navigation beams roughly translates to Crooked Leg. This actually gives a good idea to a radio expert on how the system works.

Freya (Freya-Meldung). German short range radar. In Norse mythology Freya was the Nordic Venus. She had a necklace, her most prized possession, which was guarded by Heimdall, the watchman of the gods, who could see 100 miles both by day & night. An accurate description of a short range chain radar system. Not only that but even before war had been declared a mystery tower had been reported to British Intelligence, situated at the Brocken - which is the special abode of the mythological Freya.

I find this extremely interesting. Anyone know any more like it?

I've been reading the Mitrokhin Archives, and the KGB codenames tended to be blindingly obvious. I'll have to have a think about other ones for a bit.

Ozzy

Window.

The British name for what we now call chaff...it was designed to provide a window through radar so as to avoid all those nasty fighters.

Window & Overlord might have some general reference to what they were but I don't think they would mean much to an enemy. I like the more obscure code names. The significance of Freya in particular would only be apparent to someone with a good knowledge of classical literature. Even then, the real importance would only become clear to someone from the same background as the person who thought of the name in the first place. ie. An electronics expert well versed in the classics. There can't have been too many of them around in WWII.
This is what I find so fascinating.

Maybe I can extend this topic a little by wondering how code names were allocated. It seems obvious to me that ideally the code name would have no relationship at all to whatever it referred to, yet this often was not the case. The British system, if you can call it that, was haphazard to say the least. It seems that someone, perhaps the inventors themselves, thought up a name & providing nobody objected & it hadn't been previously allocated they used it. Knowing how intellectuals think this might not have been such a good idea. The meaning might not be obvious to a normal person but could well give important clues to their fellow intellectuals working in intelligence for the enemy.

I'm sure I once knew why 2 RAF navigation aids were named GEE & OBOE but I forget now. ???
My favourite story is the origin of another one named H2S. This is the chemical formula for hydrogen sulphide which, as any schoolboy knows, smells strongly of bad eggs. Apparently they were discussing a suitable name for this new invention at a top secret meeting. Prof F Lindeman, Winston Churchill's senior scientific adviser well known for his narrow minded views & an abrupt manner, said "The idea stinks. Call it H2S."
Now that's what I call the perfect code name. Nobody could possibly guess or deduce what it referred to.  

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Hi Brensec. I've been waiting for you to show up.

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This was actually called 'Seelowe' or Sea Lion. I don't think it was ever intended to be secret, in fact quite the opposite. It was always more of a propaganda exercise than a serious invasion plan. IMHO

PS. In that it was extremely successful. The threat of invasion was believed imminent at even the highest levels of the British government throughout 1940.

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Churchill might or might not have believed it. Professor R.V Jones writing after the war suspected he didn't. Whatever he believed, his "Fight them on the beaches" speech is still one of the most powerful & stirring examples of oratory skill I have ever heard. It certainly had the desired effect on the British people & I suspect our allies too.

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A-G - THis merits a new thead by itself - the use of doubles for famous people.

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I don't know what NPR is or where they get their information. I checked first to make sure I got my facts right. As I thought, the speech was delivered in the House of Commons & broadcast to the nation. Unless the actor was also an expert ventriloqist I can't see how it would have been possible.
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This seems to indicate that the speech was recorded later for broadcast so there might be something in it after all. I've never heard it suggested & from what I've heard about him Winnie would never have contemplated such a thing unless he had completely lost his voice.
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Thanks Felix. Did you spot this at the bottom of the page?

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Doesn't this all belong in the Churchill trivia section?

1. What is 'NPR', that Geko is referring to??  ???
 
2. As far as the 'German Invasion' being 'believed' by Churchill. I haven't read Churchills account of his War years. What doe he say in that? Does anyone recall?  ???

3. I know (for sure) that Churchill used a 'Physical double' (as did most leaders during that time), but I'v also never heard of the 'voice double' business.
I'm sure there were plenty of people (impressionists) who could have, and still could, do a convincing 'Churchill', but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't have used one unless it was a matter of the 'utmost importance' that he couldn' attend to. And certainly not his most famous, stirring and ultimately the one which 'whipped up the spirit' of the people. 

I've seen the History Channel Doco on Churchill ad there is no mention of this. They also interviewed people eho had worked with him i.e. his private Secretary etc, and again, no mention of anything of the sort.

I know that if there was any controversy, they could easy analyse the voice recordings. They have a machine (in fact it's many years old now), that can tell the difference between the 'voice waves' of people and their 'impressionists'.
Actually, when I saw this copmparison, many years ago, I was amazed at how different two voices looked (in waves) that sounded exactly the same (the demo was of Rich Little doing Jimmy Stewart - which, if you are familiar, is an extremely good impression). The waves are very very different, so they could tell!! 

The Second World War abridged version Pimlico Books
Winston Churchill
Book 2 "Alone: May 10, 1940 - June 22 1941"
Chapter 10
pp331

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I hope this clafies it.

Will

My local NPR station is the only place where I can listen to BBC at night 8)

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Jim. I agree that Enigma is an excellent name for a coding machine but it gives no clue as to how it actually works. I visited Bletchley Park last year & saw several examples of these & other WWII coding machines. I now have a rough idea of their history & how they actually work.

The first practical Enigma machine was produced in 1918 by Arthur Scherbius in Berlin. It was intended for commercial use & actually based on idea patented by a Dutchman, H. A. Koch. The silly thing being that nobody at the time realised its military potential except for the German services.

http://pan.net/history/enigma/index.htm

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I can't find anything to back it up but I think the inventor actually gave it the name to market it under. Enigma was orginally intended for commercial purposes - company security etc.

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Not trying to hog the action, simply sticking to stuff I'm interested in & know a little about.
I once knew the answer to this but it was long ago & I forget all about it now. I assume it's something to do with the Samurai warrior tradition. I seem to remember the name "Kamikaze" was also used for a pre-WWII Japanese record breaking aircraft. Maybe someone can elaborate.

Ashamed to say I had to resort to Google.
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The record breaking aircraft I was thinking of was the Mitsubishi Ki-15. I believe the techniques used on the record breaking flight were adopted with great success by the Japanese military.
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I realise that OTTOL. I'm also ribbing you in my own way & learn something new here every single day.

I'm just a raw amateur compared with some of our members. The historical knowledge of some youngsters around here not only surprises but also impresses me. This is almost certainly due to their own interest & a passion for knowledge. Unfortunately I don't think they're taught this in school.

Americans used some of the indian tribes to make up a code system for radio conversation of frontline troops in the pacific.

The signal name for the startof the atack on pearl harbour was 'east wind, rain'

'east wind' as they came flying from the east
'rain' quite obvious: bombing.

The americans had a name for the japanese coding machines... something with purple in it. they are not shown to the public as they never managed to break the coded messages of the thing until they got hold of one

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I believe the recent feature film "Windtalkers" is based on the Navajo code talkers. I haven't seen it myself. http://www.mgm.com/windtalkers/
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This thread seems to have gone quiet so I thought I would try to revive it. On reading further into "Most Secret War" I've found a few more interesting examples.

In late 1940 the Enigma code had been broken sufficiently for some of the Luftwaffe bombing targets to be identified in advance. The heavy night raid on Coventry on 14th November 1940 flattened much of the city & was the most devastating bombing raid Britain had experienced up till that point. Unfortunately the codebreakers could not decode the messages in time on this particular day, not that this would have changed anything. Previous decoded messages for a major operation by KG 100 named "Moonlight Sonata" often included the word KORN which translates to corn in English. This could have meant anything but it was later discovered that KORN was the name given to Coventry - or Koventry as it would be spelled in German.

After Coventry the Germans mounted a similar large attack under the code-name "Regeschirm" - meaning Umbrella. Neville Chamberlain was famous for carrying an umbrella & also associated with Birmingham. This turned out to be the target.

Another operation was named "Einheitspreis" which translates to "unit price". This was associated with stores like Woolworths where at the time most items or units cost sixpence. Sixpence is historically associated with the Town Comissioners at Wolverhampton*. This attack never took place & it was later discovered that it was the first operation to be directly cancelled as a result of the Bletchley Park codebreakers work. The Luftwaffe reconnaisance had noticed a big build up of AA guns & other defences around the proposed target which led them to believe the code had been completely broken. This was not in fact true as the target had been identified purely through nothing more than inspired guesswork.

I still find it strange that clues were given in these & other code names to enable someone with the appropriate knowledge to make a good guess as to their significance. It would surely have been better if the code names were chosen at random with no possible significance at all. I find it fascinating how intellectual minds work.

*PS. I was completely unaware of the connection between Wolverhampton & sixpence until a few minutes ago.
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By the way, it seems our new little Forum catagory is goin quite nicely. Thank you people. It';s very enjoyable to have somewhere to come and always find something very interesting to get involved in.   8)

Hagar wrote:
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I always thought that Churchill knew about this raid ahead of time, because they had figured out the German 'radio beam' bomber navigation system. But he was faced with the dilemma of evacuating Coventry or defending it very heavily with AAA and night Fighters etc, and risk letting the Germans know their 'beams' had been discovered.  ???

Have I got my 'beams' crossed somehow, or is there something to this?  ???

By the way, Hagar, as far as Bletchley Park is concerned, if I ever get to the UK, it will be on my list of 'must sees'.
I've seen so many History Channel Docs on this place and the people that worked ther, that I feel I know the place inside out!! 
It seems that whenever there is a Doco on some event in WWII, Bletchley is somehow involved.

I recall seeing a movie a while ago about Bletchley. Maybe someone else has seen it too?
It's about a bloke and a woman that work there, one of them turns out to be a Spy. It includes the 'episode' during the Atlantic War when the Germans had changed the Enigma code and they needed to get the Germans to send a pile of messages to their U-Boats so they could fill in some missing peices to the new code. They risked the safety of an entire convoy, hoping that the U-Boats would converge on it and they could get the missing bits they needed.
Has anyone seen this one?? 

Here's one that is the opposite of the meaningful code names - meaningless code names.

The D-Day landing beaches names - Utah and Omaha - had no particular significance.  Neither did Mulberry - the artficial harbors.  Imagine the general staff's shock when these words appeared in crossword puzzles in the London Daily Telegraph a month before the landings.

If you have heard the story you have heard that it was chalked up to coincidence and the landings went off as planned.

Not so.  The words were overheard by a schoolboy who, fortunately, had no clue of their significance, and passed on to his schoolmaster, who published the crossword puzzles.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0206/feature1/

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I've seen a documentry about this and apparently Major Martin was actually Able Seaman Martin who died when his aircraft carrier exploded and sank while comming into Glasgow. Of course, thats not the official story. But it seems more true. As the body they had from london died from Neumonia and eating rat poison.

I saw the same doco as woody.  It was believed for many years that the body of a vagrant was used and I think that was the plan but they were suddenly "gifted" with tons of freshly drowned bodies and the plan changed.

And wasn't it all about "Husky" and not "Overlord"?

Will