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WWII Forum?? (Read 2792 times)
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 1:49am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
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I've been toying with the idea of suggesting this for a while, but wasn't sure of the reception, so I've finally just 'bitten the bullet'.
I've noticed a distinct 'fall off' in the number of topics posted concerning the WWII Aircraft, the battles, Campaigns and the people (compared to say, a year ago).
I understand how the 'more recent conflicts' can still be 'close to home' or still be a little 'politically charged', but WWII is a long way away, and I think there's little or no contention as to the 'morality' of the need for it to have taken place.
I also know that there are a number of people who don't have an interest in Warbirds or the comflicts in which they were sporned. But after all, many of us are here because of the CFS Sims, all WWII based. Many of us are also amatuer Historians of this era.
So, what about a forum dedicated to WWII, its aircraft, the events and tactics, the people and myriad of 'what if's' that may be a little boring for many in the General Forums.
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Reply #1 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 3:00am
BFMF
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We all know what you really mean
What you want is a whole new board for arguing over what aircrafts were better
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Reply #2 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 3:10am
Hagar
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Quote:
We all know what you really mean
What you want is a whole new board for arguing over what aircrafts were better
LOL Andrew. That's about right too.
Personally, I think there's already enough room for discussion on these subjects in the CFS & Real Aviation forums. Any more would just confuse things even more than they are already. Or is it only me that finds all these different sections confusing? ???
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Reply #3 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 4:31pm
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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I know it would seem that I am lobbying for a separate forum for discussion aboiut the Warbirds. And yes, it's partly the case.
However, I (and others) enjoy the discussions about ALL the other aspects of the conflict and the period.
I'm also tired of people becoming bored (and saying so, rather than just leaving), whenever there is a discussion that goes in this direction. Personally, I could turn any discussion in to a WWI oriented discussion.
My thought is, if we can have a Music forum, and a Car forum in a site dedicated to Flight Simulation (probably Combat related more so than civilian), we should be able to have a Forum about the conflict and short period in which more progress was made in the area of flight than any other period in the century.
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Reply #4 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 4:50pm
BFMF
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yes, I've always enjoyed the WW2 discussions, and woud frequent the board if it was created. But why limit it to just WW2? Why not include WW1, Vietnam, Korean, or any other war/conflict?
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Reply #5 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 4:55pm
Felix/FFDS
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As a closet historian - my definitiion of which is I know enough to sound knowledgable to a neophyte - I like the topics/threads on historical issues. To this day, I enjoy finding out something I hadn't known before, or if I had known about it, learning a new fact the puts a new spin on the issue. I would be a "regular" in a History/WW2 topic - whether or not limited to the aviaion aspect.
As a suggestion, prof. we can gauge interest by prefacing an admitted "historical" topic by the period "WW2: Soviet helmet development" for example, or "WW2: Allied Use of Axis aircraft in squadron ops", "Spain: Most effective fighter - Cr.32 or I-15"
Felix/
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Reply #6 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 5:00pm
Hagar
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The way I see it, war in itself is a controversial subject. I have strong feelings on the subject which might get the better of me. I think an unlimited War forum might be asking for trouble. Personally I like it the way it is, confined to aircraft.
Scorpion posted a more varied topic on WWII in the General Discussion forum. Even this ran the risk of getting out of hand on one occasion, caused by a perfectly innocent comment of mine that was misunderstood.
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Reply #7 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 5:13pm
BFMF
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Quote:
Personally I like it the way it is, confined to aircraft.
Even so, does it have to be limited to WW2 erra aircraft? There were aircraft used in other wars like WW1, Korea, & Vietnam that I would love to learn more about
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Reply #8 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 5:37pm
Hagar
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Quote:
Even so, does it have to be limited to WW2 erra aircraft? There were aircraft used in other wars like WW1, Korea, & Vietnam that I would love to learn more about
Post whatever question you like. You don't need a special forum to do that. If you ever visited the Fox Four site you might have noticed we specialise in the Korean conflict of 1950 - 53. If I don't know the answer you can bet I know someone who does.
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Reply #9 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 6:47pm
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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I see the value in all the comments/arguments for and against the forum being specific to WWII.
Personally, as I made clear in my first post, there can still be some 'politically charged' aspects of the other conflicts, especially those involving the Middle East (even though they maybe, in themselves, quite short). Also Vietnam still to this day, can turn into the old 'moral' debate of "should the US (and Australia) have been there at all".
So for my part, I wouldn't be recommending an 'open war forum'. We could come unstuck very easily.
I think, anything other than the 2 World Wars and possibly Korea, could leave the forum vulnerable to too much 'emotional' debate or opinion. That's why my suggestion was for a specific period, i.e. WWII. Of course, WWI would not be a problem, but the air aspect of that conflict is a bit limited. Korea, as I said, would probably be 'safe' enough.
As for anything more recent, well........my experience is that there is still to much 'division' in the general population as to the morality and purpose of these conflicts. Not so the world wars and maybe Korea.
I'd hate to see (is indeed the forum ever did become reality) the forum become a source of concern and censor, for Pete and the Mods straighjt off the mark. It wouldn't last long if that were the case.
No, I think up to Korea is the only safe way to ensure politics and morality don't become regular visitors to the forum.
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Reply #10 -
Dec 16
th
, 2003 at 9:52pm
Flying Trucker
Ex Member
It would seem we need a reason to insert a new forum, perhaps our Moderators could start this way. A POLL.
Yes a POLL of our members by age. After all we have to be careful how much KNOWLEDGE we release to our guests and members...right...HMMMM
I would start this way:
AGE (YEARS) FORUM PARTICIPATING REASON
10-14 -interest in airplanes..grade
school
14-17 -interest in airplanes..perhaps
a little interest with History..
High School
17-22 -interest in aircraft...History..
perhaps looking for aviation
related occupation..college
22-45 -interest in aircraft...History
probably in the work force
45-60 -interest in aircraft...History
Buff...Looking forward to re-
tirement and enjoys passing
on his Knowledge to others
60-and Up -interest in aircraft..History
Buff and needs something to
do while dunking his donuts
You and I know what I just typed is all BONK
Why are we worried about passing KNOWLEDGE on about Aviation, it started long before the Wright Flyer and will go long after we are all gone. The history of aircraft in conflicts, rescues, humanitarian missions. commercial use and the pure enjoyment of the avid flyer is all part of World History and it can not be changed friends no matter how hard we try.
It is up to us the posters to be politically and moraly correct and to try and keep those issues of contriversy out of the discussion forum.
Well that's my two cents from an old rudder stomper.
PS. That dunkan donut thing looks pretty good LOL
Happy Landings....Cheers...Doug
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Reply #11 -
Dec 19
th
, 2003 at 5:48pm
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Thanks Doug, for your thoughts.
Obviously, my having posted this suggestion is evidence enough that I feel such a forum is needed (or at least would be useful), so anything I say is going to be (and will be taken as) biased.
However, when you consider the reason we are all here. I mean the core reason, the one thing that led us all to SimV in the first place. I think you'll find that more than half were looking for downloads or Information about one of the Sims. The chances are that that Sim was one of the CFS Sims (WWII based). Hence, a common interest in, at least the 'aviation' aspect of WWII. After all, the majority of the more popular Combat Flight Sims are based on WWII.
There never seems to be a shortage of input whenever there is a disussion about one aspect or another of WWII. I know I learn something every time we have one. It is/was a very interesting period (albiet unfortunate in the destruction and death dept). I, personally would go so far as to say, that it was probably the last of the 'popular' conflicts. (When I say 'popular' I mean there was no 'moral dilemma' or any question as to the necessity for the Allies having to fight and prevail - the freedom of the entire world was at stake).
Of course, as has been said, there is little chance of a forum limited to WWII becoming a place for 'heated debate' or discussion that may lead to the problems associated with the 'less popular' conflicts (and the parties involved in them).
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Reply #12 -
Dec 19
th
, 2003 at 6:25pm
Hagar
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Quote:
Obviously, my having posted this suggestion is evidence enough that I feel such a forum is needed (or at least would be useful), so anything I say is going to be (and will be taken as) biased.
You could be right Brensec. I've had my say & I think you know how I feel. I would personally prefer less forums, not more.
Quote:
The chances are that that Sim was one of the CFS Sims (WWII based). Hence, a common interest in, at least the 'aviation' aspect of WWII. After all, the majority of the more popular Combat Flight Sims are based on WWII.
I can't agree there - much as I might wish otherwise. SimV has always been primarily an FS site. Check out the number of posts in the relevant forums.
FS 2004 - A Century of Flight (released a few months ago) 13888
CFS3 (released 1 year earlier than FS2004) 6923
FS 2002 (2 years earlier than FS2004) 43149
CFS2 (released 3 years before FS2004) 6418
This doesn't mean anything. Many FS users are interested in aviation history but not necessarily warbirds or war.
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Reply #13 -
Dec 19
th
, 2003 at 6:49pm
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Yes, Hagar. Point proven. But I still want one!
8)
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Reply #14 -
Dec 19
th
, 2003 at 6:50pm
Hagar
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Quote:
60-and Up -interest in aircraft..History
Buff and needs something to
do while dunking his donuts
That about sums me up nicely. You might like to add - Opinionated old gasbag. Stubborn as a mule. Likes arguing about any subject under the sun. 8)
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Reply #15 -
Dec 19
th
, 2003 at 8:16pm
Flying Trucker
Ex Member
Sorry Hagar can't add that....I can get in trouble all by myself LOL.
I do see the Profs. point as well as yours.
Happy Landings....Cheers....Doug
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Reply #16 -
Dec 20
th
, 2003 at 12:07am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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OK. Well that's it, for all it's worth. No harm in asking, I suppose.
I am really still having difficulty trying to rationalise how cars and music are more pertinent to Flight Sims than the years '39 - '45.
Is it just me?? ??? 8)
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Reply #17 -
Dec 20
th
, 2003 at 2:09am
BFMF
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Quote:
I am really still having difficulty trying to rationalise how cars and music are more pertinent to Flight Sims than the years '39 - '45.
Is it just me?? ??? 8)
You've got a point there
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Dec 20
th
, 2003 at 3:29am
Hagar
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Quote:
OK. Well that's it, for all it's worth. No harm in asking, I suppose.
I am really still having difficulty trying to rationalise how cars and music are more pertinent to Flight Sims than the years '39 - '45.
Is it just me?? ??? 8)
I think you have made your case. As far as I can see, I am the only one to have any objection. I have no influence here, simply an ordinary member of this forum stating my opinion as you stated yours. It would seem I was outvoted.
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Reply #19 -
Dec 20
th
, 2003 at 4:49am
Smoke2much
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It would be nice to see a specified forum for military history as I like discussing these topics with people whom I consider friends. However I have to agree with Doug that there is no specific need for it. If I see a post by the Prof' I know I'd better read it to keep him honest and it is a matter of seconds to look through the various threads and find what floats your boat.
Will
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Reply #20 -
Dec 20
th
, 2003 at 11:57pm
pete
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It's a nice idea - but the way I see it is why just WW2? Too narrow a field, IMHO. Then it starts to get complicated ... Vietnam, Korea, WW1, Gulf. So why not just 'Warfare'? Well - that would inevitably provoke flamewars & upset users......
In terms of popularity modern fighter jets get many more downloads than old warbirds - does this mean modern combat is of more interest? Not necessarily - it probably just means there are lots of people out there who like to fly f-16's, etc, in FS.
The Music & Autos forums were created as there were consistent posts on these subjects in the General & Cafe forums & I had a few requests for both from our users .... However relevant - it has to be accepted that these forums - particularly Music - are used. & the bottom line is I haven't seen consistent WW2 posts...
Now as for an
Quote:
Opinionated old gasbag. Stubborn as a mule.
forum ... now maybe here we have a case ....
Think Global. It's the world we live in.
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Reply #21 -
Dec 21
st
, 2003 at 12:53am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Thanks Pete, Smoke and people.
I know the difficulty which was summed up quite nicely by Pete. In the nutshell, WWII is too restricted and an open Warfare or Conflict forum would be dangerous.
I see the difficulty, and did in the beginning. I just hoped, I suppose, that someone may come up with a viable solution to the dilemma.
Oh well, back to the General Forum.
(Actually, I'm kicking off my site shortly. It has nothing to do with Aviation, so no competition, Pete! - he laughs - as if!!
. It's a medical related forum for sufferers of RA, but there are catagories and topics of a general nature for all sorts of discussion apart from the common association members will have, and I will make a special point of having my own personal "WWII history buffs disussion Forum"
).
I'll call it "The cripples guide to world domination"
Of course, regardless of whether I get a good response or not. i will still be here to wave the WWII flag!
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Reply #22 -
Dec 24
th
, 2003 at 7:42pm
Woodlouse2002
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I like jam.
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I wouldn't mind a WWII forum. Any topics on the subject are usually quite long. Maybe a forum would help cut down those 13 page topics.
Flying-trucker, I don't want to cause offence but that table thing you drew up there is not at all accurate. I personally have been extreemly interested in aviation and history since I was very small. By the time I was nine I had read Reach for the Sky, the Dambusters and Strike Hard Strike Sure. Therefore I do not see how that table is in anyway relevent.
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Reply #23 -
Dec 24
th
, 2003 at 11:53pm
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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I must admit that, as Woody says, any WWII related topics or Warbird topics relating to WWII are generally well subscribed.
I think this, again, is a demonstration of the fact that, although Truckers figures and point may well be pertinent, there is still a very large contingent of members who are here because of their common initial interest in WWII and probably more specifically, the warbirds of the period.
As Trucker points out, the post numbers in each specific catagory would indicate more 'topic activity' in the FS area. But I would say that, all those who are posting in the FS areas are also posting in the CFS areas and the General topics concerning WWII birds.
Of course, I've already mentioned that these WWII realted post seem to be better subscribed, more often.
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Reply #24 -
Dec 26
th
, 2003 at 5:48pm
Hagar
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I'm still not convinced it's necessary but would a History forum cover it?
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Reply #25 -
Dec 27
th
, 2003 at 5:23pm
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Quote:
I'm still not convinced it's necessary but would a History forum cover it?
It's amazing, Hagar. That's the very thing I was thinking of yesterday at work (the Net was down, so I had 12 hrs at work when I could have been posting all day, and the mongrel thing wasn't working
).
Anyway, yes, I think a History Forum would certainly cover it. There is still a slight danger of discussion heading towards and ending up in areas like 'the Gulf War', 'Afghanistan' (war against terrorism - not the Russian one) and 'Iraq' etc. But I don't think the risk is any greater than that posed in the General or Cafe Forums.
In fact, now that I think of it, people generally tend to think of 'History' as events prior to at least, their lifetime (just a generalisation on my part). For instance, I don't see the '70's as 'History Proper' in my mind.
Bearing this in mind, I think there would be a tendency for people to keep posts in a 'History' Forum limited to events well before the more recent 'controversial' conflicts (except maybe Vietnam, which in itself is not that much of a volatile area these days. At least not here).
Yep, I think a History Forum would be a reasonable compromise, and just personally, it would suit me anyway, as I am a bit of a 'History Buff' (in areas other than WWII also).
Also, I can see it possibly becoming an area in which the younger chaps (at school or college), could gain some advice and insight into any 'History' related assignments or projects to do with their studies. 8)
So, what say people (and Pete)? Is this a reasonable compromise. Enough at least for a trial to gauge the level of interest? ???
Steve
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Reply #26 -
Dec 27
th
, 2003 at 6:53pm
Felix/FFDS
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I too would like a "History" forum that would cover all the bases, with the threads to be kept strictly on topic. As we all know, it's hard enough to place a start, let alone an end, to an event...
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #27 -
Dec 28
th
, 2003 at 12:38am
SilverFox441
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Now What?
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
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I wouldn't mind a "History" forum...it can be kinda fun to has out the "real reasons" why something happened.
The first discussion could be:
"What is the most significant period in Aviation History...and why?"
My vote would be the Golden Age...the dawn of air commerce, the transition from fabric bipes to metal-clad monoplanes, Schneider Cup Races, Turner Cup, Cleveland...
Steve
(Silver Fox)
Daly
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Reply #28 -
Dec 28
th
, 2003 at 1:56am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA
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It would seem that Silver has just started without us.............
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Reply #29 -
Dec 28
th
, 2003 at 12:19pm
pete
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'That would be a network
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Cloud Cuckoo Land
Posts: 8500
Well - persistence has paid off
- too many votes to ignore!
You guys have your history forum ...& Hagar don't complain any more about 'too many forums already' when you have been key to this new one with your solution of calling it 'history'
Think Global. It's the world we live in.
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Reply #30 -
Dec 28
th
, 2003 at 12:24pm
Hagar
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My Spitfire Girl
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Posts: 33159
LOL Pete. A History forum it is with no complaints from me.
You could make a little room by losing the FAQ forums we discussed some time ago. I realise that moving what topics are in them might be a tad difficult.
Thanks.
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Reply #31 -
Dec 29
th
, 2003 at 9:46am
Professor Brensec
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Thank You...............all!!
I now have somewhere to talk about WWII history, specifically, rather than bothering others in the General and cafe forums (which really are a bit too 'wide ranging' for something so specific).
Of course, you all know that it's REALLY a WWII forum 'disguised' as a History forum.........don't you??
j/k
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