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Pearl Harbor Day... (Read 636 times)
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 5:24pm
Wing Nut
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I can't believe it's been all day long and no one has posted that this is Pearl Harbor Day.
It was only the worst attack on the US until Sep 11...
Personally, I would like to go to Hawaii some day and be there on Dec 7 to see the ceremony they put on at the USS Arizona Memorial. Then I would like to go across the bay to the Missouri to see where it all ended.
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Last Edit: Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 7:43pm by Wing Nut
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Reply #1 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 7:16pm
Polynomial
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may we never forget the souls that were lost!
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Reply #2 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 8:54pm
Lethal.Ambition
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Reading statistics does not really affect me much but just knowing all the Navy men that were lost and trapped under their own boats. under the metal not being able to get out....i don't mean to say Army and civilians are not important but that sort of death
.........
I will never forget
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Reply #3 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 8:58pm
BFMF
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Yep, it's Pearl Harbour day, couldn't get that fact out of my mind all day long.
but imho, it was worse then 9/11.
I've never been to Pearl Harbour, but we have some friends who went who took their video camera. I was amazed to see oil still leaking from the Arizona
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Reply #4 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 9:09pm
Lethal.Ambition
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there anyways that piece could be uploaded? WOuld love to see it.
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Reply #5 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 9:15pm
chomp_rock
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Let the poor souls that died on that day rest in peace (not the japanese pilots that died that day though). As a small tribute I just flew a missing man over pearl harbor on the FS with some fellow sim pilots, we flew a formation untill we reached the Arizona memorial then I peeled off slowly.
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Reply #6 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 9:24pm
Professor Brensec
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It was actually yesterday here. But I left it to the Americans, as I figured that there would be a few posts and a bit of a tribute/discussion on their 'special day' of remembrance.
I saw the usual History Channel Doco that they show each year. Also one of the commercial channels had Tora, Tora, Tora on as the 'Evening Movie'.
I used to wonder why it was only the Arizona that was chosen to be made into a memorial. It wasn't until quite recently (a couple of years ago), that I found out that all the other battle ships were actuallly refloated and/or repaired and she is the only one left there.
A couple of the Battle ships went on to take a little 'personal revenge'.
(I didn't really become all that interested in the American aspect of the Pacific conflict until I got CFS2. That's what set off all the research and study of that side of things.
Prior to that I was quite interested and well versed on Europe and the Australian related Pacific events).
It's really amazing, not to mention the achievement, that the Arizona was the only one permanently lost.
I know they really needed the ships badly, but that was one 'mean feat'.
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Reply #7 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 9:40pm
BFMF
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Why only the Arizona Memorial?
Probably because of it's dramatic sinking.
The huge explosion was photographed, and i'm sure everyone is familiar with that photo. And if i'm not mistaken, the Arizona was also one of our biggest battleships at the time. Not to mention the huge loss of life on one ship
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Reply #8 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 9:43pm
WebbPA
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I'm guilty. I didn't notice the date until I was at the pub. When I mentioned it someone told me he went to Hawaii a couple of years ago and the Arizona still leaks oil.
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Reply #9 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 9:53pm
Felix/FFDS
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Quote:
Why only the Arizona Memorial?
Probably because of it's dramatic sinking.
The huge explosion was photographed, and i'm sure everyone is familiar with that photo. And if i'm not mistaken, the Arizona was also one of our biggest battleships at the time. Not to mention the huge loss of life on one ship
Like you say - the Arizona was probably unrefloatable.... Not much salvageable remains when the magazines explode. ... not like the USS Maine when its coal bunkers exploaded.
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Reply #10 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 10:21pm
Professor Brensec
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Quote:
Why only the Arizona Memorial?
Probably because of it's dramatic sinking.
The huge explosion was photographed, and i'm sure everyone is familiar with that photo. And if i'm not mistaken, the Arizona was also one of our biggest battleships at the time. Not to mention the huge loss of life on one ship
Like I said, Andrew. She's the only one that was left there to make a Memorial of. The rest were refloated and/or repaired.
Does anyone know if there were any 'foreign' sailors killed at Pearl? Surely there would have been some RN, RNZN, RAN or even RCN exchange blokes on one of the ships. It would be nice if they all came through OK, but the chances are pretty good that some would heve gone down with the ships.
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Reply #11 -
Dec 7
th
, 2003 at 10:38pm
Wing Nut
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I don't think she was refloatable. Keep in mind, not only is it a wreck, it is also a tomb for almost 1200 people too. I'm sure if there were anyway for those bodies to be recovered, they would have. Also, the US was in short suppy in capital ships and another battleship would have helped. I think if there were any way to save the ship, they would have done it...
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Reply #12 -
Dec 8
th
, 2003 at 11:33am
Silent Exploder
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really bad...being surprised by the enemy when everything seems to be normal - and dying an unexpected death.
but i gotta admit that the japanese did - seen in a military ,not human way - a great job. they took out almost the entire american pacific fleet within one and a half hour.
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Reply #13 -
Dec 8
th
, 2003 at 1:08pm
Felix/FFDS
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Quote:
but i gotta admit that the japanese did - seen in a military ,not human way - a great job. they took out almost the entire american pacific fleet within one and a half hour.
Blame the Brits - the Japanese got the idea for the torpedo attack from the Taranto raid
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Reply #14 -
Dec 8
th
, 2003 at 1:41pm
Hagar
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Blame the Brits - the Japanese got the idea for the torpedo attack from the Taranto raid
Didn't either Billy Mitchell or James Doolittle warn of the possibilities of such an attack way back in the 1930s? I believe some trials were carried out by the AAF against some old warships. I seem to remember their ideas were brushed aside by higher authorities.
PS. It was earlier than I thought. Mitchell was court-martialled for sticking to his beliefs.
Quote:
Returning to the US in early 1919, Mitchell was appointed the deputy chief of the Air Service, retaining his onestar rank. His relations with superiors continued to sour as he began to attack both the War and Navy Departments for being insufficiently farsighted regarding airpower. His fight with the Navy climaxed with the dramatic bombing tests of 1921 and 1923 that sank several battleships, proving-at least to Mitchell-that surface fleets were obsolete.
Within the Army he also experienced difficulties, notably with his superiors Charles Menoher and later Mason Patrick, and in early 1925 he reverted to his permanent rank of colonel and was transferred to Texas. Although such demotions were not an unusual occurrence at the time-Patrick himself had gone from major general to colonel upon returning to the Corps of Engineers in 1919-the move was nonetheless widely seen as punishment and exile. Not content to remain quiet, when the Navy dirigible "Shenandoah" crashed in a storm and killed 14 of the crew, Mitchell issued his famous statement accusing senior leaders in the Army and Navy of incompetence and "almost treasonable administration of the national defense." He was courtmartialed, found guilty of insubordination, and suspended from active duty for five years without pay. Mitchell elected to resign instead as of 1 February 1926 and spent the next decade continuing to write and preach the gospel of airpower to all who would listen.
The election of Franklin D. Roosevelt, a Navy man, was viewed by Mitchell as advantageous for airpower. In fact, he believed the new president would appoint him as assistant secretary of war for air or perhaps even secretary of defense in a new and unified military organization. Such hopes never materialized. Mitchell died of a variety of ailments including a bad heart and influenza in 1936.
It's easy for me to say this in hindsight but maybe things would have turned out differently if someone besides Yamamoto had taken notice of him.
Quote:
Yamamoto publicly ridiculed US Army General Billy Mitchell's 1920s contention that Japan would, one day, attack the US by surprise on a Sunday morning at a little-known port called Pearl Harbor in far-away Hawaii. "I do not regard relations between the US and Japan from the same angle as General Mitchell. I have never thought of America as a potential enemy, and the naval plans of Japan have never included the possibility of a Japanese-American war."
It was therefore with great frustration and consternation that he watched war clouds gather in the Pacific during the 1930s.
http://sandysq.gcinet.net/uss_salt_lake_city_ca25/yamamoto.htm
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Last Edit: Dec 8
th
, 2003 at 3:27pm by Hagar
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