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Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1 (Read 7398 times)
Reply #60 - Dec 8th, 2003 at 12:52pm

C   Offline
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Ok, form a quick look it appears the 24 disappeared in 1951 from operational service with 80 Sqn.

The RAuxAF operated 21s and 22, but I've just had a look and I believe these were all replaced late 1940s/early in the 1950s (1949 - 1952) with Vampires and Meteors.

The last PR mission by a Spitfire XIX was by PS888 on 1st April 1954 with 81 Sqn...

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Reply #61 - Dec 8th, 2003 at 1:32pm

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I found the article I mentioned in the Nov 1998 issue of Aeroplane Monthly. It was written by Flt Lt Edward Powles AFC, describing his experiences with 81 (PR) Squadron, then based at RAF Seletar. He led a detached flight of Spitfire PR.XIX based Kai Tak in 1951 - 52. He personally flew 107 unauthorised PR flights over Communist territory during this period. The article ends in July 1951. It's unfinished & I have yet to find the 2nd part.
 

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Reply #62 - Dec 8th, 2003 at 1:39pm

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Quote:
I seem to remember one account of the Spitfire meeting its old enemy the Bf 109 after WWII but the roles were reversed.



The Israeli Air Force bought several Avia C-99 <unsure right now of the designation) fighters, developments of the Me-109G with a Junkers Jumo engine - giving it a blunt "radial engine" look (annular radiator - similar to the TA-152 configuration).

As an aside - I remember reading an account from an Israeli pilot who's flight tangled with several 'unmarked' Spitfires.  Those Spitfire, he said, were "too'well flown" to have been Arabs ...

Until the IDF started "modernizing" in the mid-fifties, they flew Spitfires, Mustangs, Avias, basically "second-hand" fighters until they started a long association with the Dassaults - Ouragan, Mystere, Mirage ...


 

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Reply #63 - Dec 8th, 2003 at 1:46pm

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Charlie, Spit F Mk 21 went operational with 91 Squadron in April 45. LA200 is credited with sinking a German Midget Submarine off the Hook of Holland and is the only notable combat success for the F Mk 21.
 

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Reply #64 - Dec 10th, 2003 at 6:49am

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This one's a "gimme" so easy, it's laughable.

Apart from the Merlin and Griffon engines, at least one other engine was *notably* tested on a Spitfire Mk V airframe, with so-so results.

(Notably refers to the fact that this combination has been referenced here in Simviation in the past year)

 

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Reply #65 - Dec 10th, 2003 at 10:36am

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A bit of a wild guess from memory, but did the Germans capture one and fit a DB engine?

Cheers Paul
 
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Reply #66 - Dec 10th, 2003 at 10:52am

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A bit of a wild guess from memory, but did the Germans capture one and fit a DB engine?

Cheers Paul



bingo.... a MkV force landed in FRance, reengined with a grafted DB605.  Sort of a Spit with a 109F nose.

 

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Reply #67 - Dec 10th, 2003 at 4:44pm

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...and ugly (for a Spitfire) too Sad

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Reply #68 - Dec 14th, 2003 at 12:48am

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If you want to see a drawing of that German Spitfire, go here...

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/spitdb605.html
 

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Reply #69 - Dec 14th, 2003 at 2:58am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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I only recently found this out. I've mentioned it it another thread (topic), but I thought I'd mention it in here too, as it's quite pertinent.  Shocked

The Spitfire MkI (at least some of them) had 'manually pumped' landing gear.  Shocked
I never knew this. How many of these were there??  Grin Wink
 

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Reply #70 - Dec 14th, 2003 at 4:46am

Hagar   Offline
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Quote:
I only recently found this out. I've mentioned it it another thread (topic), but I thought I'd mention it in here too, as it's quite pertinent.  Shocked

The Spitfire MkI (at least some of them) had 'manually pumped' landing gear.  Shocked
I never knew this. How many of these were there??  Grin Wink

I shall have to check up on this. Too many experts around here for my liking & they all know more about it than me. Roll Eyes

Changing hands after take off to pump the undercarriage up (note that the proper term is undercarriage, not gear) was not easy & actually dangerous until you got used to it. They always reckoned you could spot a rookie Spitfire pilot by watching his take-offs.

Meanwhile, I thought this might amuse you.
Quote:
'I climbed into the cockpit and Ken Scales helped me to fasten my parachute, then closed the little access door at shoulder height. The cockpit was narrow but not cramped. The instrument panel was tidy, symmetric and logically laid out. At once I felt good in that cockpit. I primed the Merlin engine carefully and it started first time and from the stub exhausts, one for each of the 12 cylinders, came a good powerful crackle whenever a small burst of power was applied for taxiing. I did my cockpit checks. With a last look round for other aircraft I turned into wind and opened the throttle. The aircraft tended to roll on its narrow undercarriage, but soon we were airborne and climbing away.

At once I had to reset the rudder trimmer and then to deal with the undercarriage retraction and the canopy. The undercarriage had to be raised with a hydraulic hand pump, so it was necessary to transfer the left hand from the throttle to the stick and operate the pump with the right, difficult to do without inducing an oscillation of the whole aircraft.

However, once fully airborne the aircraft began to slip along as if on skates with the speed mounting up steadily and an immediate impression of effortless performance, somewhat reminiscent of my old Bentley cruising in top gear. The view straight ahead was almost non-existent as one got close to the ground, so I approached the airfield in a gentle left hand turn, canopy open, and head tilted to look round the left-hand side of the windscreen. As I chopped the throttle on passing over the boundary hedge, the aeroplane showed no desire to touch down - it evidently enjoyed flying - but finally it gently settled on three points. Here, I thought to myself, is a real lady.'

From 'Spitfire' by Jeffrey Quill
 

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Reply #71 - Dec 14th, 2003 at 7:46am

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Not unlike Geoffrey Wellums account of his first flight in a Spitfire, although he describes more 'personal difficulty' intermixed with his positive remarks about the way in which the aircraft handled and powered etc.  Grin Wink

The two noteable difficulties are the same: the having to change 'joystick hands' for pumping the 'undercarriage up' AND the distinct lack of forward visibility (compared with the 'flat nosed' radials).
As we know, he goes on to be one of the very lucky 'survivors of a mishap' because of his personal difficulty with the lack of forward visibility.  Grin Wink

I honestly thought that the Polikapov I16 was the only 'monoplane' fighter with 'manually operated' landing gear.
I'm not very knowledgeable about the I16 at all. It's just that it is specifically mentioned in the 'Fighter Ace' specs. There is no mention of such gear on any other plane!  ???

Are there others, about which I am also unaware?  ??? ???
 

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Reply #72 - Dec 14th, 2003 at 7:58am

Professor Brensec   Offline
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Quote:
If you want to see a drawing of that German Spitfire, go here...

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/spitdb605.html


I've downloaded this 'very interesting' drawing. If anyone ever comes across a photo of this 'one off' animal, please let me know. I'd love it in my gallery. Simply for the sake of it's 'uniqueness'.  Grin Cheesy Wink
 

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Reply #73 - Dec 14th, 2003 at 8:33am

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I'm sure the Spitfire was not the only one. Not sure about the Hurricane. The retracting undercarriage was still a relatively new idea at the time they were designed & most British aircraft of the period shared common components. The post-war De Havilland Dove & Heron light feederliners used many pneumatic components previously used on military aircraft. The Dove/Heron brake valve was an updated version of the one on the Spitfire & many other fighters. I used to specialise in pneumatics until the idea went out in favour of hydraulics. As I mentioned in the other thread, a slightly updated version of the original manually operated Spitfire hydraulic pump is still in use today as an emergency handpump fitted to aircraft like the HS/BAe 125,  Avro 748 & many other civil types.

PS. I suspect the Bf 109 had manually operated gear. I know its little sister the Bf 108 Taifun did. http://www.warbirdalley.com/bf108.htm
The Avro Anson originally had a wonderful mechanical system that involved something like 100 turns on a handwheel to raise the undercarriage & the same amount to lower it. This would be operated by a crew member, not the pilot. I believe the Short Stirling was the same (maybe this was the emergency system) but that would have involved a lot more turns. Wink

PS. Despite popular misconceptions among the general public, things don't change much in the aircraft industry. The old adage applies. If it ain't broke - don't fix it. Wink

<edit typos>
« Last Edit: Dec 14th, 2003 at 9:39am by Hagar »  

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Reply #74 - Dec 14th, 2003 at 9:12am

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That I've been able to read -  The Stirling had an electric u/c retraction system with a manual backup...

The Wildcat (F4F/FM) had a manual system, I believe 23 turns of a crank.  (although extension was usually done by releasing the lock, and " bumping" the plane in the air and letting it lower by itself, and locking it again..Smiley

 

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