Simviation Forum - Building a PC

Oct 22^nd, 2003 at 8:48am

Professor Brensec Offline
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With a great CPU case I've manage to pick up for nothing and a mile of leads and cables that came with it (the remnants of about 4 PC's that have been 'ratted' for the last 6 months or so at work), I've decided to have serious look at building a decent (from a Simmer's point of view) CPU.

I already have a good 17" monitor and great keyboard and optical mouse. I also manage to get a couple of decent quality 50 watt speakers (plenty good for me) while I was emptying the ofiice storeroom out (with permission, of course).

I need now, for someone to tell me exactly what individual components I need to make a complete PC from what I have. Grin

My PC Shop man (who has never steered me wrong) says the case I have will hold pretty much anything I would like to install. Grin

This is roughly what I want to end up with, I think! But I need to price all the individual bits from ebay and other places, but I don't know what I need or which brands to get or which to steer clear of. Your help and all suggestions will be forever appreciated. Grin

I want to end up with a CPU with at least 2.0 gb (preferably 2.5 or so) processor. Don't need alot of storage (30 - 40 GB is plenty). But I don't know what mother board or hard drive to look for.
I have 512 mb of ram strips (2 x 256 PC133 SD, which cost $180) that I don't want to waste, so I'll settle for SD ram to use them (so I suppose the motherboard has to suit them, too).

I don't have any idea about power supply.

I'd like a 128mb graphics card but 64 will do to start with, because they are about a third of the price here. (I can get a Geforce 4 (of some sort with 64 mb) for about $50-00 new. (128 cards are at least $180 plus)

Of course I'll want a decent CD ROM and REwriter and a floppy drive, but they don't have to be the top notch stuff, as I'm not big into anything much other than M$ Sims and my work.

I have no idea about sound cards, but I want something that won't draw off graphics power to give me decent sound (given I only have 2 'medium' quality 50-watters, so there's no point in something 'great' that won't be realised through lack of 'top notch' speaker quality and size.

Cooling fans I know absolutely nothing about at all. I just want something that will do the job in 'average' circumstances.

I realise that this is a tall order. Shocked

I know that there are so many variables and that my ideas of what I will settle for are far less than what others may consider worthwhile. but this is my first real PC project, and up till now I have been using a 700 mb Presario with Integrated 11mb max. Intel graphics and 192 mb ram.
So anything in the order of what I have described is going to be a BIG step up for me. Plus I might stuff it all up, too. Grin

I also am looking at maybe slowly updating things as the need arises, in time.

So what do you think I should look for, price or enquire about? Grin

Oh yeah, also. Does the job all involve leads, or do I have to solder too? Grin

&&&&http://www.ra.online-plus.biz&&&&&&I cried because I had no shoes - until I saw a man who had no feet.&&&&Dell Dimension 8100 - Intel P4 1.7 Gb - 512 RD Ram - nVidia GeForce 128 mb FX5200.

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Reply #1 - Oct 22^nd, 2003 at 2:16pm

Brett_Henderson Ex Member
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Your guy at the PC shop will prob keep steering you well. Along with all the specific components you'll no doubt be advised on here.

The only thing that sticks out ot me is: A board that will support PC133 RAM will prob be slow on the FSB speed and the AGP speed. Even PC2700 RAM is consisered slow now. And a 128MB V-card is bare minimum for FS2004.

Tough, I know, to not use 1/2 gig of RAM, just sitting in front of you, but using it will keep the whole system not just slightly, but WAY behind the technology curve.

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Reply #2 - Oct 22^nd, 2003 at 7:54pm

swanny338 Offline
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Switched from PC to Mac
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definently get at least 512MB DDR and at least PC3200

Graphics card, for your price range.. I would get an ATI 9600 128MB

the GeForce u were talking about was mostly an MX series 64MB that would kill a good system...

Still have a nice PC but I just switched to a hella nice mac

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Reply #3 - Oct 23^rd, 2003 at 12:49am

Professor Brensec Offline
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Thanks boys,

Sorry it took a few hours to get back to you, but I was wt work until a short while ago.

I see, so the gap between SD and DDR ram is just too great eh? Shocked

As Brett said, it is hard to forget about nearly $200-00 worth of Ram that I have sitting in my desk draw, but I suppose, if it's going to make that much of a difference, I'll just have to bite the bullet and forget about using it. Cry

Thanks alot. this is the sort of thing I needed to know. It seems now that it would have been silly to go out and spend (what I imagine will amount to about $400 or more, just to find that what I got is not working to it's full capacity because I went cheap on Ram. Grin

Tell me. Have I mentioned all the components that I will need to complete the CPU? (I have a 56k Modem - but is it better to get an 'integrated' one?) Grin

What sort of power source would I need and can you give me a couple of decent brand suggestions for a motherboard to support what you've suggested, with about a 2.0 to 2.5 GB processor (I assume the motherboard includes the processor, is that right?).

Thanks again
Steve

&&&&http://www.ra.online-plus.biz&&&&&&I cried because I had no shoes - until I saw a man who had no feet.&&&&Dell Dimension 8100 - Intel P4 1.7 Gb - 512 RD Ram - nVidia GeForce 128 mb FX5200.

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Reply #4 - Oct 23^rd, 2003 at 1:49am

BFMF Offline
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Hi Brensec, havn't seen much of you lately. Hope everything's been ok.

A motherboard will not come with a processor. You're gonna have to buy the Processor seperate.

You also need to decide if you're gonna have an Athlon or a Pentium system. I don't know about the Pentium systems, but you need to yourself a good fan for the Athlon processors

COMPLETED: If Anyone Cares, Here's A Map Of My Current FSX Flight Around The World

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Reply #5 - Oct 23^rd, 2003 at 2:40am

Professor Brensec Offline
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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G'day Andrew, Wink

I'm trying to get an Internet business up and running, so it's been taking up alot of time. But I'm OK. Thanks for asking. Wink

Thanks, that's the sort of stuff I don't know. I've never been involved with the inner workings of these things, but I can pick it up quickly, if I can get the info in 'plain English'...............lol Grin

Now that I know pretty much everything I need, I can start pricing and even bidding and getting the odd item on ebay etc each week or so. Grin

P.S. The power sources come with a fan in them. Is that the fan you're talking about, or is there a cooling fan for the CPU itself? (Is a 400 watt power source OK for the size system I'm talking about).

Also, I've come across a Geforce Ti4200 128 mb card on ebay that's only a couple of miles away from my place. It's $122-00 (about $80-00 US). Will that be a decent card for the 2.5 GB system I'm looking at with 512DDR at 3200 for running say CFS3? ???

Thanks Grin

&&&&http://www.ra.online-plus.biz&&&&&&I cried because I had no shoes - until I saw a man who had no feet.&&&&Dell Dimension 8100 - Intel P4 1.7 Gb - 512 RD Ram - nVidia GeForce 128 mb FX5200.

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Reply #6 - Oct 23^rd, 2003 at 3:08am

BFMF Offline
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You will find yourself with a lot of fans if you count everything in your system.

In my computer I've got a fan in my Power Supply, one on my Graphics card, one on my northbridge, another one directly ontop of my processor, and two chassis fans. I think that's all of 'em ??? Grin

For a power supply I wouldn't get one under 350 watts, but I would recomend atleast 400 watts Wink

Some online computer companies will have a list of CPU cooling fans which are compatible with each Processors. You just need to decide if you want an Athlon system or a Pentium system, then decide from there. It's all a matter of personal choice/opinion. I've seen arguments turn sour here over that matter Roll Eyes

I've got a GeForce 3 Ti 500 64MB video card. It's ok but I'm sure it's bottlenecking my system. Some of the other gurus are gonna have to advise you on this as I don't know too much in that field Wink

COMPLETED: If Anyone Cares, Here's A Map Of My Current FSX Flight Around The World

My Reality Check Bounced

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Reply #7 - Oct 23^rd, 2003 at 3:46am

Professor Brensec Offline
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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I know. As you probably noticed, I've been advised that a 128mb card is the way to go if I want to get the best I can out of the processor and DDR ram.

It's just that Swanny specifically suggested an ATI in 128mb and I was wondering if a GeForce in 128mb would be much the same.

To be perfectly honest I've seen blokes arguing about which is the best card. Some say you can't go past a particular GeForce, others disagree.
I know it's just a matter of opinion and experience.

( Isaw a Raedon (or something like that) on ebay. It was a 256mb card. It was $545-00. Now that would want to be a bloody good card!
You must be joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grin

&&&&http://www.ra.online-plus.biz&&&&&&I cried because I had no shoes - until I saw a man who had no feet.&&&&Dell Dimension 8100 - Intel P4 1.7 Gb - 512 RD Ram - nVidia GeForce 128 mb FX5200.

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Reply #8 - Oct 23^rd, 2003 at 8:33am

swanny338 Offline
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and loving it
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another thing, when you buy your heatsink (CPU Cooler) you will need a Thermal Compound, Artic Silver Ceramique is good.

a Geforce 4 Ti4200 is a pretty good card, its just starting to fall behind the top runners now, still a good card though.... One piece of advice, dont go to the GeForce FX Series from what i have heard... they all suck except for the 5900 Ultra which costs 500 dollars

CPU:
I would recommend a AMD Athlon XP 3000+

Motherboard: an Abit NF7-S Rev 2

Still have a nice PC but I just switched to a hella nice mac

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Reply #9 - Oct 23^rd, 2003 at 10:30am

Daz Offline
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have a look at my system below in my signature...i am pleased with it and i have the Geforce Ti4200 128 mb but mine is made by a company XFX that overclocks it first to give it to you then encourages to overclock some more due the massive heatsink on it. it runs fs2004 on full settings and full resolution which is quite good. if any of you are interested i have the core clock at 350 mhz and the memory clock at 690 mhz although i know it can go higher no problem due to 2 pci extraction fans i have directly underneath it and its very own chunky heatsink and fan.

i would suggest the AMD xp2800 which runs on 333fsb whereas the AMD xp3200 runs on 400 fsb so if you want to pay that quite a bit extra then go for it.

motherboard i have is quite good aswell and pretty cheap.

im afraid like the others have said that that ram will just simply slow the computer down. of course use it until you buy some more or upgrade but i wouldnt recomend any less than a gig of PC3200 to be keeping up with todays standards.

hope this helps

AMD athlon XP2800+ @2.34ghz&&Epox 8RDA3G 400 fsb, 8x AGP&&1024MB DDR400 PC3200&&XFX 256MB FX5950 Ultra (oc 525/1.04)&&40 gig maxtor 7200rpm&&80 gig seagate baracuda 7200rpm&&

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Reply #10 - Oct 24^th, 2003 at 12:08pm

KnightStryker Offline
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Awhile ago I posted a question about motherboards and thought this info might be usefull to you.
Quote:

posted by: congo
While on the subject of RAM and an AMD based system, you might like to know that if you use an AMD CPU that runs at 333mhz (166mhz DDR) such as many do, then PC2700 (333mhz ram) will actually perform faster than PC3200 (400mhz ram). The reason is that the system has to convert the faster ram back by an algorithm which uses more speed than any advantage gained by the faster RAM.

So......... Match your Mainboard FSB speed, CPU speed and RAM speed. If it's AMD based, this will be ALL either 333mhz or 400mhz in a modern system. If the system is matched up like this, It will run very quick indeed.

I tried this out and it did work exactly like congo said.
Hope it helps!
Good luck!

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Reply #11 - Oct 24^th, 2003 at 11:22pm

Professor Brensec Offline
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Can't you give me a couple
more inches, Adam?
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Thanks for the info and help boys.

I can't say I understand it all, but for my purpose, it's all very valuable, because it's coming from people who are doing with their PC, what I need to do - SIM. Grin

I was especially interested to read that the 333mhz (2700 - whatever this means) can be as fast as the 400mhz (3200) if all the components are matched to 333mhz. That's handy to know, because I have noticed a marked difference in price between 333 and 400.
(I would proabably have done what Congo has advised against - that is getting a 333 PCU and 400 ram, thus defeating the whole purpose of the 400 DDR ram.

Much appreciated people. Thank you Grin

&&&&http://www.ra.online-plus.biz&&&&&&I cried because I had no shoes - until I saw a man who had no feet.&&&&Dell Dimension 8100 - Intel P4 1.7 Gb - 512 RD Ram - nVidia GeForce 128 mb FX5200.

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