Last night I saw, for about the 4th time, the History Channel Special on the Thunderbolt, during the last months of the War. I taped it and watched it again to make sure of my facts - or at least, History Channel's facts).

This particular Doco mainly contains footage from a colour 'Movie' that was commissioned by the USAAF, during the month of April and early May, in France and Germany.
It deals with a particular Fighter group (48 planes), the 362nd Thunderbolt Group (I think - I can check if anyone is specifically interested) based in Eastern France and then in Frankfurt. A major part of the film is about the 'crossing of the Rhine', in which this Squadron played a pivotal role in terms of ground support.
They have a couple of the Pilots who were in the Squadron at that time, as guest 'commentators' etc.

The Doco is called "Thunderbolts - Last Days of the Reich". 

Anyway, before I go into any discussion about these amazing Planes, and their Pilots, I have a peculiar (at least I think it may be peculiar) question to ask. I would appreciate any insight that anyone may have. 

Much of the film shows P47's flying in formation, breaking, diving and firing on targets etc. The majority of the time 4 planes are shown, or groups of 4 (flights I believe they were officially called i.e. 4 x flights = 1 squardon of 16 etc).
Anyway, it seems almost always, the four P47's consist of 3 bubble canopy types and 1 razorback type.
I thought maybe, I was seeing the same group of four, over and over again, but when I checked, I noticed different tail and nose colours and markings on nearly all of them.
In fact, there is one shot where you can make out clearly, a full Squadron. It's taken from the air. There are four planes flying over to the right of the field, four just taken off, four on the runway, and four taxiing.
Each group has one Razorback type, and the rest are Bubbles.
What's more interesting is that all the Bubbles are silver with coloured tails and noses, and all the razors are Army green with coloured tails and noses.

What is the story here, if any?

Is there something a Razor can do that a bubble can't, or vice versa.
The only thing I can think of is they wanted to 'disperse' the razors, with their poorer visibility, among all the flights.

It seems to me that if I had four out of 16 planes green and of a different type, I would have them in the same flight and the other three flights would be silver bubbles.
Maybe I'm just a 'neat freak'..........lol

I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if out of the entire 48 planes there is an exact ration of 1 in 4 razors.

(Just a point of interest, for discussion, they quoted an average of 25 personnel to keep one plane in the air, at that time in the War).   

Probably its to do with the distribution of new aircraft, and doing it evenly. Or like Roger said, availability.

Mark

Well, the 9th Air Force got the new 47s second to the 8th.  So they didn't get the 25+ models till later.  The Razorbacks were painted olive drab because the USAAF thought it was the best mix of all ground colors.  By the wars end the Planes were coming off the line in the natural metal, 'silver', color because it took less time to get 'em to the front if you didn't paint them.  But they were basicly flyin tin foul!  The sun reflected off them that way, and they were easy to spot campaired to the camifloged British and German planes.  The paint on the nose and tail where squadron markings, and nose art.  The 'Old Hands' weren't always given the new planes.  Sometimes they were so in love with the older models they were relucent to fly a new plane.  Maybe they scored their first or fith kill in it, or maybe they were nearly shot down in it, but the plane got them home. 

The USAAF mainly used the 'Finger Four' formation, and I have no idea why the ravorbacks always fly tail-end charlie in the movie...But, maybe thats the way it worked. 

Sock

P.S.  Brensec, could send me a copy of that movie?     I've only seen it once before and it was a while ago.   

I don't recall exactly where the razorback plane flies in each of the flights. oir even if there is a 'constant position'. if they are always in the same spot, I suppose there is a reason for it, as mentioned.

I'm at work now, so I'll check when I'm finished on Monday (I do 2 x 12 hrs shifts Sat & Sun, so there's not much time to do it till then). 

Well, then I'll say one more thing... It would make no sense to put the razorbacks in the tail-end Charlie position because they have the least visiblity, and that is the most likely spot to get hit from.  You'd want someone with a 360 degree vantige point.

As for my story of a favorte aircraft "holding water", I can quote a book I have about a 9th Air Force Thunderbolt fighter-bomber squadron.  They author takes an older razorback model instead of a newer model with the bubble canopy and a paddle blade prop, because when ever he flew that perticular Jug, he never got a single hole in the plane.  But that plane was later fitted with a baddle blade prop.

Sock

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Uh............I was agreeing with you dude!

   From what I have read, and can recall, early P-47D Razorbacks (yes there were both bubble canopy and Razorbacked D models) - the early Ds varied only a little from the Cs with only slight improvements in the tubrochargers, and added armour.  The C & D models both used the R2800-21 or the -59.  When the D model was modified to use the bubble canopy of the Hawker Typhoon, the engine was change to the R2800-63 and the paddle blade was added.

                     Fido

  P.S.  Seeing that I am new here, and do not know you all, I may have just restated the obvious. Sorry if I did, and please let me know.

  Weren't the P-47Ns the lightest of the Thunderbolts and given longer range for use in the Pacific Theater?

  Interesting note on the P-47M, from what I've read, those that were camouflaged were not painted in standard Air Corps colors.  Supposedly the camo paint came from a British auto shop, which gave the M models unique hues of blue and violet.

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Yep.   

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I don't know, at all.  Maybe it was a squadron or group signiture.  Like some squads liked to fly in diamond formations... ???  I don't know.

Sock

I haven't seen this doco (wish I had) & know far too little about the P-47. I do know it's a mighty impressive looking machine.

From what Brensec is saying, this particular squadron were involved in ground support. I would assume they had adequate air cover & not expect to be in air to air combat. This is only a theory but maybe they used every aircraft they could get hold of. The razorbacks might then be equally distributed between flights. It sounds as good as any other theory to me unless anyone knows better.

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9th AF P-47s rarly had air cover.  And all USAAF figther pilots, regardless of role, were taught as fighter pilots to fly air-to-air missions.  Pilots were not taught much ground support tactics.  Many fighter-bomber pilots had kills to there credit.

Sock

Towards the end of the Doco, there is an account of the situation regarding the 100's of thousands of German soldiers that had to walk back to Germany when the War was over.
There is some footage of these often pathetic looking convoys of Germans walking down a road, with the odd American or Brit, who has no rifle pointed or at the ready, just over the shoulder etc.

The amazing thing, to me at least, is that there are clearly what appear to be SS Officers, in full garb, happily chatting to GI's, and laughing etc.

How could this have been? They are Waffen SS, who I'm led to believe were just fighting soldiers and not involved in the atrocities etc. (However, I have seen other Doco's that have poked a few holes in this 'fact').

Even so, after having liberated the Death camps, how could these GI's etc be so ready to just forget and treat the blokes as anything other than animals. Surely the 'very obvious' skull and cross bones on the cap would be enough for them to realise who and what these blokes were. Many of the Wermacht hated them and what they knew they had done.

Maybe I'm being too harsh. maybe I'm assuming that every GI and Brit and Frenchman etc was aware, and had seen first hand, the work of the people. Maybe it was known then that the Waffen SS were not involved in this stuff? I dunno. I just saw it as..........surprising. 

It is strange to see on a couple of occasions, a truck or car (loaed with, what appear to be relatively healthy Germans) go passed a legless or obvious badly wounded German, hoobling down the road.......................What a terrible time, when even the slightest degree of human decency seems to have gone out the window.